Railroad Forums 

  • Platform Edge Doors on SEPTA

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1299164  by ExCon90
 
It seems to work fine in London and other places (isn't it also on Metro Line 14 in Paris?). One requirement is that all trains must have doors spaced uniformly and identically, and the El has that; also I believe automatic train operation would be required to ensure precise spotting, but presumably the manufacturer would have to spring for that as well. (Of course any future replacement equipment would have to have exactly the same door spacing, but that wouldn't seem to be a problem.) As long as SEPTA doesn't have to pay for it, it might be worth trying. One advantage from the passenger standpoint is that the platforms can be air-conditioned.
 #1299208  by Limited-Clear
 
I guess I must have ticked off someone and I didn't even mention Newtown.

As I said new stuff on a trial is really not the way to go, try looking at other places that have tried and tested product already in use, did Septa not figure that out with the SLVs.

I works in London, why not approach them or someone who has a working system already, at least you'll know it works
 #1299248  by 25Hz
 
I feel that it is not appropriate for this transit agency to be toying with that idea when there are so many other things (most of which have been discussed exhaustively on here) that need addressing. I also feel it is very telling of how far out of touch 1234 market is with the reality of the transit system they are supposed to be making useful to the people in the region in which it serves.
 #1299273  by CComMack
 
Platform edge doors would be an amazing step forward for SEPTA. Right away, the unreliability of the system from train vs. passenger incidents will be almost entirely eliminated. In the slightly longer term, it would allow for automated operation. As that would decouple service levels from labor costs, that should result in 5 minute headways (or better) throughout the service day, with corresponding increases in ridership. TWU won't like it, but the attractiveness of the system running so frequently should result in an overall increase in employment in the long term.

The argument that SEPTA can't do more than one thing at a time is only applicable when those things cost money. Most people are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, although I understand why 25hz might not think so. If this is really free/very cheap for SEPTA (and it should be, as long as the signaling system is compatible with ATO, since this is all very mature technology that's been in place for decades), I see no reason not to push forward with this as quickly as possible.
 #1299306  by Clearfield
 
CComMack wrote:I see no reason not to push forward with this as quickly as possible.
I can give you 234 reasons why not............
 #1299316  by CComMack
 
Clearfield wrote:
CComMack wrote:I see no reason not to push forward with this as quickly as possible.
I can give you 234 reasons why not............
Yeah, they're not going to like it, but in the long term it ought to increase employment, as the bus network (which has a higher operator/passenger ratio) gets more popular as a result of the rail trunks getting more popular. Well, TWU has never been known for their forward-looking thinking, so it will probably become A Thing, but that doesn't mean they're not wrong. I'd trade a strike for platform screen doors and automation in a heartbeat, that's for sure.
 #1299325  by loufah
 
Unless these "screen doors" are built as tough as the doors on the M-4's, these are not going to last very long in Philadelphia. And unless they're real transparent, they're going to block the billboards on the columns between tracks, costing SEPTA $$$$.
 #1299356  by R3 Passenger
 
I am reading these responses here, and I can't believe some of it.

I think that most of the negative response is coming from assumptions, and we all know what happens when you assume.

Anyway, I think it should be pointed out that the article is generated from a city councilman with the intent of coupling a job creation effort with a positive societal benefit. I have experienced these "screen doors" on subways before, and it was not on a line with "automatic operation." And SEPTA barely has the money to keep the system running, let alone "improving" its efficiency with something like automatic operation. Therefore, the argument that 234 would have a problem is invalid. In fact, I kinda liked the execution of it.

All in all, I think it would benefit 234 by improving working conditions. I know there have been many topics about people jumping in front of trains or falling onto the tracks in such a way that the operator is helpless to avoid it and therefore suffers psychological issues as a result. In addition, this project pays for itself through advertising. Once the cost has been recouped, the ad space is turned over to SEPTA for its revenue purposes. And, it allows for more ad space than what is in the track area now (not to mention variable, which means more ads per hour a la the screens on the platforms at Center City stations such as Marker Eas--I mean Jefferson Station).
 #1299373  by CComMack
 
loufah wrote:Unless these "screen doors" are built as tough as the doors on the M-4's, these are not going to last very long in Philadelphia.
Ah, the "our vandals are special" argument. OK, the point is taken that Singapore does not require as heavy-duty an installation, but if you think we'd be rougher on our PSDs than Paris or Shanghai, you're nuts.
 #1299450  by SCB2525
 
I like the idea of PEDs alot, however I don't know whether they'd be a good fit for SEPTA until either the BSL or MFL are set up for ATO (read: LONG from now). Most PEDs I've seen require somewhat exact stopping in relation to the doors, and stopping a train from 50-70MPH within a foot one way or the other isn't easy.

That said, if the company truly is proposing to foot the bill and a contract is written so as they have to also pay to remove it should it be a failure, and they are building them so that you could increase the number of cars per train in the future, I say go for it. It would be odd to have these shiny new partitions and doors amidst the shabby, smelly remainder of the platform areas though.
 #1299454  by Clearfield
 
The ROW side of the glass will require constant cleaning. Brake dust, etc.
 #1299542  by Jersey_Mike
 
Platform screen doors generally slow down operation compared to open platform lines. There is simply too much "slosh" in stopping a rail vehicle to prevent the inevitable "slow and creep" to line the doors up.