SEPTA to increase service on CHE and Norristown lines

[Suburban Station]

That has to be a misprint. They just finished building an interlocking on the Chestnut Hill West line at the point of the old Westmorland station. East doesn't have any interlockings on the branch except at the end of the line.

maybe you're right... but they'd have to pay Amtrak more money wouldn't they?

unless they were planning on short turning hill west trains at north philly (with timed transfers to trenton line trains) which would make some sense.
does SEPTA pay amtrak a flat fee? seems silly that it should cost the same to add trains on sunday as it does rush hour peaks.

for the poster, SCB, who talked about the city paying to lower fares. it's a good idea, as I understand it, back in the private operator days the city did just that and reportedly saw a lot of success. in fact I have read that the demise of Pittsburgh's commuter system was attributed to the fact that plans there fell through to implement just such a program. it was ended here, I believe, in the conrail era which saw huge fare increases and the introduction of zones (I'm not old enough to remember these things but this is what I've read, fwiw)

[MACTRAXX]

SS and SCB: The City of Philadelphia already has subsidized lower off-peak fares in the form of allowing the use of Zone 1
passes to any RRD station within the boundaries of the City of Philadelphia (except Forest Hills and Somerton) on weekdays...

Within Philadelphia Zone 1 passes are valid at all times to Zone 1 stations and for Zone 2 and 3 stations the AM Peak restriction
on Zone 1 passes is on trains arriving in Center City before 9:30 AM and the PM Peak restriction is between 4:00 PM and 7:00PM
on trains departing the Center City stations...

All SEPTA Trans and Trailpasses are valid between the 5 Center City Stations (Temple University, Jefferson Station at Market East,
Suburban Station, 30th Street Station and University City) and on the Airport Line at ALL times...

ALL SEPTA Passes have ANYWHERE privileges on Saturday,Sunday and Major Holidays...

On the subject of service increases: The new service levels on Chestnut Hill East and Fox Chase lines are now adequate and
as example CHE service should increase if CHW service is curtailed due to bridge issues with the truss bridge across the RDG
trunk near Westmoreland front and center...The Swampoodle connector allowing CHW trains to bypass the Amtrak NEC
would be a good alternative if it can be built with a reasonable cost...

MACTRAXX

[Suburban Station]

Wow could fare policy be any more confusing?
There should be no need to curtail service on the chw since septa now has funding to replace the bridge. I don't support swampoodle since it would merely make the two lines more alike. Just fix the interlocking plant and shorten the trip. 30th st will soon generate more trips than market east so there's no need to hit market first.

I also don't agree that fox chase service is adequate. Thanks for the zone 1 tip though it's not th e same as having them all be zone 1

[Clearfield]

I don't support swampoodle since it would merely make the two lines more alike.

Swampoodle will never be built. I learned from a very senior exec at SEPTA, the cost aside, the main trunk from 16th st. can't handle the additional CHW traffic at rush hours without creating bottlenecks, especially with PTC in place.

[SCB2525]

I think that has to be nonsense. I can't believe current service comes that close to saturating a 4 track main. Going from 2 to 4 tracks at Wayne Junction; you've only added CHE and Norristown trains to the throughput.

What MAY be of issue is the fact that lines of trains are waiting any given morning on track 3 to cross over into Roberts Yard. In the capital budget, it calls out installation of "high-speed" crossovers at HUNT to ease this, but I don't know how that would solve anything. The train has to be down to 5MPH onto the yard lead anyway, and being as short as it is, the speed of the crossover is almost irrelevant. The only true "fix" for this would be a flyover that allows a train to come up off of TK4 and into the yard lead.

[scotty269]

The obvious solution is to contract CSX for access to the blue line by diesel powered express trains.

[Suburban Station]

The money would be better spent speeding up the current chw than building swampoodle

[Limited-Clear]

You have your track numbers wrong, 4track is closest to the yard, no need to build a flyover off 4 track

[SCB2525]

True.

[SCB2525]

The money would be better spent speeding up the current chw than building swampoodle

You might think so until you consider that $7.6M will be spent rehabbing the CHW bridge over the main. That money could build Swampoodle, completely eliminating the crawling CHW trains do south of Lehigh. In such a situation, you've also completely eliminated payments to Amtrak for trackage rights.

From a service point of view however, it does make sense to have each Chestnut Hill come in from either side of the CCCT. It just sucks that CHW suffers so much from having to deal with Amtrak.

Swampoodle aside, I wouldn't mind seeing is a newly rebuilt joint Norristown/CHW Allegheny station if/when that station is rebuilt.

[Suburban Station]

The money would be better spent speeding up the current chw than building swampoodle

You might think so until you consider that $7.6M will be spent rehabbing the CHW bridge over the main. That money could build Swampoodle, completely eliminating the crawling CHW trains do south of Lehigh. In such a situation, you've also completely eliminated payments to Amtrak for trackage rights.
From a service point of view however, it does make sense to have each Chestnut Hill come in from either side of the CCCT. It just sucks that CHW suffers so much from having to deal with Amtrak.
Swampoodle aside, I wouldn't mind seeing is a newly rebuilt joint Norristown/CHW Allegheny station if/when that station is rebuilt.

right but you just eliminated transfers to the NEC and still haven't improved trip times to 30th st. once the crawl is eliminated the line should be a lot more useful as it is, making it more competitive with driving.
I'm not convinced it suffers "from having to deal with Amtrak." I think it suffers from underinvestment.

[Clearfield]

The money would be better spent speeding up the current chw than building swampoodle

You might think so until you consider that $7.6M will be spent rehabbing the CHW bridge over the main. That money could build Swampoodle, completely eliminating the crawling CHW trains do south of Lehigh. In such a situation, you've also completely eliminated payments to Amtrak for trackage rights.

From a service point of view however, it does make sense to have each Chestnut Hill come in from either side of the CCCT. It just sucks that CHW suffers so much from having to deal with Amtrak.

Swampoodle aside, I wouldn't mind seeing is a newly rebuilt joint Norristown/CHW Allegheny station if/when that station is rebuilt.

Swampoodle will never be built. I learned from a very senior exec at SEPTA, the cost aside, the main trunk from 16th st. can't handle the additional CHW traffic at rush hours without creating bottlenecks, especially with PTC in place.

[SCB2525]

And I'll say again; bullhockey.

Basically, such a statement precludes any expansion on the Reading side. I find it hard to believe.

[R36 Combine Coach]

One other issue about the connector would be the Fox Chase (R8) would have no PRR side companion if the CHW is switched to the RDG side.

[Clearfield]

And I'll say again; bullhockey.

Basically, such a statement precludes any expansion on the Reading side. I find it hard to believe.

Existing Reading-side lines can be extended to (or close to) their original destinations, but adding a brand new line with trains in both directions creates the congestion and exceeds the capacity of that part of the trunk during rush hours - without a 5th track through to Suburban from 16th st.