Amtrak service to Suburban Station

[SCB2525]

Fine, then have them serve only as far as Suburban.

Mind you, my ultimate vision here is a demonstration of how a better schedule and service into Center City might bode for additional lines at relatively minimal cost for South Jersey. I don't see why NJT couldn't be running regional commuter rail on say the Penns Grove Secondary, Salem Branch, Bridgeton Secondary, Pemberton Branch, etc.

[Suburban Station]

Buy more ALP-45DPs.

I would be interested as to what AC service running into Suburban and even Market East would do to that line's ridership.

If it ran through center city on its way to 30th st then it might have an impact but going to 30th first is going to make it a much slower option than the bus...and all but useless for getting to say, cherry hill.

[SCB2525]

NJT 404 Bus from Cherry Hill Mall to Broad and Cherry is 48 minutes. ACL Cherry Hill to 30th St is 32 minutes. Add 5 to Suburban. It's timing is also much more stable and isolated from road traffic.

Game, Set, Match train.

[Suburban Station]

NJT 404 Bus from Cherry Hill Mall to Broad and Cherry is 48 minutes. ACL Cherry Hill to 30th St is 32 minutes. Add 5 to Suburban. It's timing is also much more stable and isolated from road traffic.

Game, Set, Match train.

wow, so it would be 38 minutes from suburban and 48 minutes by bus (19 by car). I hadn't realized njt buses were so awful. just add north philly to the train

[MACTRAXX]

SCB and SS: I can see NJT -TESTING- a ALP45DP to use access to Suburban Station...This train could turn on either Tracks
0,5,6 0r 7...NJT would have to pay "rent" to SEPTA for SS access...At least NJT tickets are available at the SEPTA ticket office...

With regular AC service to/from SS NJT would probably need two TVMs there and you would have to deal with SEPTA's NPT gates when it begins
and/or install turnstiles and other equipment allowing NJT tickets to be used similar to Secaucus Junction and Newark Airport - NJT AC tickets
could be encoded to allow this option...The problem place would be 30th Street Upper which would need added gates compatible for NJT...

As for regular use of ALP45DPs for the sole purpose of access to Suburban Station I say NO.

Remember - SEPTA will not allow diesels into SS (or ME) unless they go through on a lined route ASAP to either end of the CC Tunnel...

MACTRAXX

[SCB2525]

Remember - SEPTA will not allow diesels into SS (or ME) unless they go through on a lined route ASAP to either end of the CC Tunnel...

MACTRAXX

Yes; hence the ALP45DP. NJT will have to replace some of its diesel engines eventually anyway; it seems it would be worth increasing the ratio of dual modes to straight diesel for flexibility.

How many locomotives are set aside for AC service at any given time?

[MACTRAXX]

Remember - SEPTA will not allow diesels into SS (or ME) unless they go through on a lined route ASAP to either end of the CC Tunnel...

MACTRAXX

Yes; hence the ALP45DP. NJT will have to replace some of its diesel engines eventually anyway; it seems it would be worth increasing the ratio of dual modes to straight diesel for flexibility.

How many locomotives are set aside for AC service at any given time?

SCB: First-the ALP45DP has not proven itself fully as of this writing and the locomotive ratio questions would need someone from the NJT Forum to
be properly answered...$9 million dollars each is a huge sum to be spent on any special rail locomotives like the ALP45DP...

MACTRAXX

[Push&Pull Master]

I don't think NJ Transit is going to extend ACRL trains to Suburban regardless of Septa's policies with the dual modes since they just deferred improvements that would've upgraded headways to every hour due to casino closures.

[Clearfield]

I don't think NJ Transit is going to extend ACRL trains to Suburban regardless of Septa's policies with the dual modes since they just deferred improvements that would've upgraded headways to every hour due to casino closures.

With the closure of Revel, Showboat, and Trump Plaza, AC now has half of the number of casinos it had at its peak.

Gone are the Hilton (nee Golden Nugget), Playboy, Claridge, and the Sands.

These closures make seven. Normally a lucky number but not this year.

The AC line may be an endangered species AGAIN and I'm sure that NJT will be keeping a close eye on ridership and revenue.

[Suburban Station]

Amtrak failure in the ac market was attributed to the existence of casino buses which provided highly subsidized, more convenient transportation than the train. The casinos are eliminating commuters but also competition.

[R3 Passenger]

The AC line may be an endangered species AGAIN and I'm sure that NJT will be keeping a close eye on ridership and revenue.

From what I understood about the AC Line, NJT always treated it as being Atlantic City-centric. If they could adjust the times to accomodate Philly commuters (and possibly extend service to Suburban Station), it would open the line to a new market. As the schedule is now, Philly commuters would be too early or too late to work, thus relying on PATCO at Lindenwold.

Background: I have a coworker who lives in Hammonton not even three blocks from the station in town there, and he would absolutely love to have rail service from home. Unfortunately, the schedule does not conform to our work hours.

[Clearfield]

The AC line may be an endangered species AGAIN and I'm sure that NJT will be keeping a close eye on ridership and revenue.

From what I understood about the AC Line, NJT always treated it as being Atlantic City-centric. If they could adjust the times to accomodate Philly commuters (and possibly extend service to Suburban Station), it would open the line to a new market. As the schedule is now, Philly commuters would be too early or too late to work, thus relying on PATCO at Lindenwold.

Background: I have a coworker who lives in Hammonton not even three blocks from the station in town there, and he would absolutely love to have rail service from home. Unfortunately, the schedule does not conform to our work hours.

We're getting off topic, but NJT could, if they chose to, truncate service to Pennsauken instead of Philadelphia. The primary service rationale is to get casino employees to and from work. Gamblers are a secondary consideration. Servicing equipment at 30th St is useful, but passenger service from 30th st is not required.

If someone wants to continue this topic on another board here on railroad.net I'll be sure to follow it.

[walnut]

We're getting off topic, but NJT could, if they chose to, truncate service to Pennsauken instead of Philadelphia. The primary service rationale is to get casino employees to and from work. Gamblers are a secondary consideration. Servicing equipment at 30th St is useful, but passenger service from 30th st is not required.

If someone wants to continue this topic on another board here on railroad.net I'll be sure to follow it.

Bob, NJT may be able to choose many service options, but how would dropping service to the fifth largest city in the US and one of the largest rail hubs in North America affect the bottom line and cost effectiveness of the NJT service? Moreover, since the western stations have PATCO service, the most likely riders to be lost by "truncating" are traveling the furthest distance and thus paying the highest fares. Given this situation, why would you even write something like that?

Transfers reduce market potential up to 40% as compared to direct service. Extending any rail service into the Philadelphia CBD reduces the number of connections required to use it (e.g. reaching the Broad Street Line and north-south buses and also ease of walking to more central locations). That is the reason the original topic discusses Amtrak in the center city tunnel, and it probably applies even more so for NJT service. If SEPTA truncated the PRR routes to 30th and forced a transfer, ridership would drop considerably. Ergo, the opposite effect is likely for services that only serve 30th and not the tunnel - they are probably not achieving maximum potential ridership.

[Clearfield]

Bob, NJT may be able to choose many service options, but how would dropping service to the fifth largest city in the US and one of the largest rail hubs in North America affect the bottom line and cost effectiveness of the NJT service? Moreover, since the western stations have PATCO service, the most likely riders to be lost by "truncating" are traveling the furthest distance and thus paying the highest fares. Given this situation, why would you even write something like that?

Transfers reduce market potential up to 40% as compared to direct service. Extending any rail service into the Philadelphia CBD reduces the number of connections required to use it (e.g. reaching the Broad Street Line and north-south buses and also ease of walking to more central locations). That is the reason the original topic discusses Amtrak in the center city tunnel, and it probably applies even more so for NJT service. If SEPTA truncated the PRR routes to 30th and forced a transfer, ridership would drop considerably. Ergo, the opposite effect is likely for services that only serve 30th and not the tunnel - they are probably not achieving maximum potential ridership.

I'm ringing a warning bell. NJ killed the Hudson tunnel project.

[Suburban Station]

Bob, NJT may be able to choose many service options, but how would dropping service to the fifth largest city in the US and one of the largest rail hubs in North America affect the bottom line and cost effectiveness of the NJT service? Moreover, since the western stations have PATCO service, the most likely riders to be lost by "truncating" are traveling the furthest distance and thus paying the highest fares. Given this situation, why would you even write something like that?

Transfers reduce market potential up to 40% as compared to direct service. Extending any rail service into the Philadelphia CBD reduces the number of connections required to use it (e.g. reaching the Broad Street Line and north-south buses and also ease of walking to more central locations). That is the reason the original topic discusses Amtrak in the center city tunnel, and it probably applies even more so for NJT service. If SEPTA truncated the PRR routes to 30th and forced a transfer, ridership would drop considerably. Ergo, the opposite effect is likely for services that only serve 30th and not the tunnel - they are probably not achieving maximum potential ridership.

I'm ringing a warning bell. NJ killed the Hudson tunnel project.

they didn't; however, truncate service in secaucus