Amtrak service to Suburban Station

[NorthPennLimited]

Anyone catch the article in the Philly paper yesterday about City Council and Chamber of Commerce idea to rename Suburban Station to City Hall Station and have Amtrak Keystone trains from Harrisburg terminate at Suburban Station instead of lower level 30th street?

The premise was it will attract more tourists to downtown Philadelphia from Harrisburg and New York. Also Pennsylvania pays for Keystone Service to Harrisburg, while NJ, and NY don't pay a dime for those trains, so why extend them to Suburban Station?

The writer actually did a little homework and sounded intelligent about railroading.

[bikentransit]

What's with the stupid craze of politicians in renaming stations? Extending the trains would be a great idea. Leave the name as is.

[glennk419]

What's with the stupid craze of politicians in renaming stations? Extending the trains would be a great idea. Leave the name as is.

I agree. You would think that City Council would have more important things on their agenda. From a visitor's standpoint, this would just add to a ton of confusion being that we already have a City Hall station on the BSL. The existing station names have served us quite well for decades.

As for the Keystone trains once again extending to Suburban, as long as Septa has the slots to accommodate these trains, that's probably a very good idea which hasn't happened since they were still running Metroliners.

[ChrisinAbington]

As for the Keystone trains once again extending to Suburban, as long as Septa has the slots to accommodate these trains, that's probably a very good idea which hasn't happened since they were still running Metroliners.

Ahhh, but then we'd get to see how smart those SMART cards really are.. Will the gates at Suburban allow through Amtrak ticket holders as well as Septa riders? Or is this just finding a way to get platform zero outside of the gated area? and yes I know its just a tad early to worry about such things..

[ExCon90]

This topic was also raised under Amtrak, and I'll repeat the same comment I made there: why would anyone from other parts of the state be attracted to a station named after Philadelphia City Hall? Maybe they could get Daryl Metcalfe to dedicate it.

I know there was a discussion awhile ago about running Keystone trains into Suburban Station (vainly renamed Penn Center in 1983), and I can't remember whether there were clearance issues about the motive power. I think the biggest issue would be the inconvenient transfer to and from New York trains on the lower level. On the other hand, the issue raised by ChrisinAbington might result in further delaying the New Payment (Turnstile) Technology, and in my opinion that would be all to the good.

[NorthPennLimited]

Shouldn't be too much inconvenience. The train comes into Suburban Station from New York, changes ends, and heads west to Harrisburg. Instead of descending down a flight of steps, passengers ascend up a flight of stairs to the train for Harrisburg at 30th Street Station.

SEPTA handles thousands of daily riders for Paoli and Thorndale out of 30th Street and those people seem to make it up a ramp and flight of stairs just fine. They even find the correct platform and train......most of the time.

[Clearfield]

Not to mention a crew change in Philadelphia. Harrisburg crews generally change in Philly before continuing on to NYC. At Suburban? No Amtrak crew quarters there.

A through train would stop at 30th upper twice? Once coming from Harrisburg and 20 minutes later heading to NYC.

Philadelphia City Council should spend its time balancing the city budget, not the routing of Amtrak trains.

[SEPTA2461]

A few more platforms would have to be built for AMTRAK service wouldn't they?

[R36 Combine Coach]

Last Amtrak service at Suburban/Penn Center was the "Capitoliners" - rebuilt Metroliners in service from HAR to Suburban, dropped in January 1988 (last on 10/25/87 timetable). By then the (unreliable) Metroliners were often towed on the old Main Line by E60s, AEM7s or F40s.

[Literalman]

Would Penn Center be a better name for Suburban Station?

Also, when a lot of the Keystone trains were terminating in Philadelphia, extending them to Suburban Station would have been a great idea except that they were generally running with diesel power, as I recall.

Even now, running to Suburban Station sounds like a good idea to me, though it would require some schedule adjustments. And maybe the trains could stop at 30th Street when arriving in Philadelphia from Harrisburg and skip it when heading to New York, and the other way around when coming from New York. I expect that most Amtrak passengers transferring to or from the Keystone trains would be from farther south. Those from farther north would be on the Keystone, and Septa passengers could transfer at 30th Street or Suburban Station.

I think that a Center City stop would be more attractive to a lot of Harrisburg line passengers traveling to or from Philadelphia. Does Amtrak still offer a free transfer to Septa between 30th Street and Center City? That's not bad, and it takes passengers to Market East besides Suburban Station.

[ExCon90]

Suburban Station was renamed Penn Center in 1984, when the Center City Commuter tunnel was opened and the entire schedule had to be recast (the idea was that then all three Center City stations would indicate their location; i.e., 30th St., Penn Center, and Market East). People simply took no notice and continued to call it Suburban Station, and some years later SEPTA threw up its hands and changed it back to Suburban Station. Maybe the solution is to get big bucks from Comcast (the Comcast Center tower is connected underground to Suburban Station) and rename it Comcast Center. (People would probably still call it Suburban Station.)

And yes, the free transfer still exists, and I think SEPTA is still trying to figure out how to integrate it into NPT.

[Clearfield]

And yes, the free transfer still exists, and I think SEPTA is still trying to figure out how to integrate it into NPT.

Per SEPTA's approved tariff, the free transfer exists only as long as there is a separate agreement in force between SEPTA and Amtrak.

If that agreement expires or is terminated by either side, SEPTA won't need to worry about how to integrate it into NPT.

[MACTRAXX]

Suburban Station was renamed Penn Center in 1984, when the Center City Commuter tunnel was opened and the entire schedule had to be recast (the idea was that then all three Center City stations would indicate their location; i.e., 30th St., Penn Center, and Market East). People simply took no notice and continued to call it Suburban Station, and some years later SEPTA threw up its hands and changed it back to Suburban Station. Maybe the solution is to get big bucks from Comcast (the Comcast Center tower is connected underground to Suburban Station) and rename it Comcast Center. (People would probably still call it Suburban Station.)

And yes, the free transfer still exists, and I think SEPTA is still trying to figure out how to integrate it into NPT.

EC90 and Everyone: For a time after the CC Tunnel opened SEPTA was using "Penn Center Suburban Station" as Suburban Station's full name -
and quietly dropped using this full title by the middle 90s(?)...The established name prevailed here...

MACTRAXX

[R36 Combine Coach]

Some maps dating to the 1990s used the "Penn Center Suburban Station" name.

Amtrak Keystone/Harrisburg service timetables between October 1984 and 1989 also used the full name. Service was suspended in January 1988.

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone: A revised name for Suburban Station could be "Suburban Station-City Hall" along the lines of "Penn Center Suburban Station"...
If this new title suffers the same fate as the term "Penn Center" did it could be quietly withdrawn from use in the same manner...

A revised name that literally makes much more sense would be re-titling the MFSE 15th Street Station "15th Street-City Hall" to go along
with the re-opening of the rebuilt Dilworth Plaza offering more access to City Hall from the W...

MACTRAXX