Railroad Forums 

  • July 4th extra service

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1280378  by scotty269
 
Anybody else take advantage of the extra service last night? Most trains were delayed, as far as I could see.
 #1280401  by NorthPennLimited
 
We took advantage of this perfect weather and the 3- day weekend and headed up to the poconos. We did the Philly 4th of July 4 years ago. The train was late and packed to the gills with drunk kids.

The fireworks were great.
 #1280500  by Clearfield
 
NorthPennLimited wrote:We took advantage of this perfect weather and the 3- day weekend and headed up to the poconos. We did the Philly 4th of July 4 years ago. The train was late and packed to the gills with drunk kids.

The fireworks were great.
I was aboard the first Warminster train to leave CC after the fireworks. The train was an SLV with 5 cars overflowing with passengers who rode free because it was impossible for anyone including the conductors to move once onboard.

This was NOT safe operation for passengers and a nice revenue loss for SEPTA presuming the other trains were similarly crammed.

SEPTA had plenty of supervision on the 30th street platform. One guy.

Saturday night's exit from the Penn's Landing fireworks was similar on the MFSE, except there were plenty of SEPTA police and people nearly getting pushed off the platforms on to the tracks.

And NO I don't have a better answer for either night except (bite my tounge) NPT gating would allow better crowd and capacity control on the railroad. Actually, the existing gating could have prevented the 2nd street platforms from becoming overcrowded if it were MANAGED.

Happy Holiday!
 #1280505  by Clearfield
 
Suburban Station wrote:the solution sounds like it is more service
that too........... :wink:
 #1280513  by Limited-Clear
 
The revenue loss for an event like this is secondary, I would rather see a drunk person ride free than slam into me at 70mph on I95!!!

The SLVs were probably the safer of all the trains that night due to all doors being closed prior to moving, the crowds weren't unexpected, it happens every year, too many people not enough crews, more service can only happen if you have enough rested crews to run it, they already extended some runs just so that level of service could be achieved.
 #1280524  by scotty269
 
I caught the second Norristown/Manayunk train from 30th street. IV's, barely anyone was on it. 30th was rough, with trains coming in on different tracks than scheduled and the one guy trying to direct people around.
 #1280596  by ekt8750
 
Took the one and only extra Marcus Hook train which was a 6 car set of Vs. It was completely packed in. Someone on our car hit the emergency call button which made us sit at University City for much longer than anyone would have liked. Like someone else mentioned above, no fares were collected at all cause well how could you with all those people.
 #1280647  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone: Noting the crowding problems after the Center City celebrations has SEPTA ever considered a gating program during events like these?

Example: The LIRR has specific gating programs in effect during events like Mets games at Citi Field at the Mets-Willets Point station and as
a better example has a gating program at Penn Station after the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade to collect all fares before boarding...
SEPTA could implement a similar program for the CC stations to collect all fares and restrict access if the need arises...
This does not need to be as elaborate as CTD strike periods and would be used when crowds are anticipated...

MACTRAXX
 #1280690  by ExCon90
 
Suburban Station wrote:the solution sounds like it is more service
Not necessarily -- experience everywhere with sports events and concerts seems to be that once it ends, everybody wants to leave at once, and this would certainly be true once the last firecracker goes off. See Scotty 269's comment above about the second Manayunk/Norristown train -- everybody got on the first one. My guess is that an announcement that there will be another train "right behind this one" would have no effect whatever.
 #1280921  by Suburban Station
 
ExCon90 wrote:
Suburban Station wrote:the solution sounds like it is more service
Not necessarily -- experience everywhere with sports events and concerts seems to be that once it ends, everybody wants to leave at once, and this would certainly be true once the last firecracker goes off. See Scotty 269's comment above about the second Manayunk/Norristown train -- everybody got on the first one. My guess is that an announcement that there will be another train "right behind this one" would have no effect whatever.
i hear the trains were overcrowded on the way in. as has been mentioned aepta doesnt have the crews to run the extra service. there probably needs to be a broad based increase in off leak servkce which should also improve availability for major events. not collecting fares on crowded trains is inexcusable but very typical at septa. id argue that act 89 and rising rrd ridership should mean more robust service. at least it does seem like were finally getting there
eta:scottys comment indicates not many people were riding to manayunk. how long did he wait for the second train?
 #1280946  by scotty269
 
Took the 8:55 from Ivy Ridge, got in to 30th around 9:30 (train was delayed and running slowly). It was packed.

There was an 11:48 out of Suburban, but there were no trains that left 30th between 11:35 and 12:00 so there was no way my group was getting there. I was at 30th at 11:35, hoping the train was coming from Powelton and we could hop on, but it looks like it arrived early or spun at Suburban.

Yeah, we could've taken the El/Trolley, but that would've been a hassle with the extra fare.
 #1280949  by 25Hz
 
Not to sound troll-ish, but this chunk of delays on a known busy day is embarrassing. Cannot one person at RRD plan anything useful?

That aside, i am glad they had extra service. Knowing there'd be delays i stuck to local offerings, which were just fine. Perhaps next year i'll try the penns landing fireworks.
 #1281048  by Suburban Station
 
it also calls into question the effectiveness of the turnstyle idea. the current plan for turnstyles is atrocious forcing everyone to funnel through a small area (at 30th st). perhaps this could be alleviated by reopening the 30th st stairwell (on the west side of 30th )which fed platforms directly.

another pet peeve-without fare collection SEPTA will not reflect the extra ridership and revenue just the expense
 #1281326  by CComMack
 
1) There is simply a hard cap on how many people you can fit on a six car train. The only way to expand capacity for the future may be to run more express/local trains in future years to balance demand, i.e. instead of two extra Elwyn trains making all stops, run the first express to Primos or Secane, and have the second be the local to serve the stops you skipped. I'm surprised this hasn't already been tried on the Doylestown or Paoli lines.

2) Under the circumstances, nobody cares about a 10 minute delay on these trains. It's still a far superior option to driving, either drunk or with all the other drivers who are drunk. Crowding, OTOH, is a serious issue.

3) As always, short-turning any train at Marcus Hook is... ill-advised.

4) One best practice SEPTA has lucked into is the long walk from the Parkway to Suburban Station, to attenuate the mass of the crowd. Stations right on top of a surge crowd generator, like the Meadowlands Station, seem to handle crowding very poorly.