SVM and the Pencoyd Viaduct

[AlexC]

No, the ROW from Norristown to Phoenixville is and never was electrified.

The Pennsy considered it at one point, but it obviously never happened.

Remember that at least one SVM proposal included crossing the Schuylkill at Perkiomen Junction, and then hanging a left at Oaks where the PRR & RDG had a grade crossing. (It's right in front of Center Ice and behind the Lowe's if you're familiar with the area). This would have continued on the PRR tracks to Mont Clair and on into Phoenixville.
That area in Oaks has a pretty good sized parking lot and would make a killer spot for a park and ride. An eastbound ramp off 422 and a westbound to get back on. Now we're talking'.

[BPP1999]

So what a lay person like me still does not understand, though, is why a revised plan, such as one of the alternatives in the study, is not utilized to go after Federal funding? These reasonable plans cost a mere 20-25% of the "too expensive" SVM boondoggle, right? Wouldn't they qualify under New Starts?

[John Johnstone]

Compare car travel within the past 30 years - Today, due to electronic advancements, a car is less likely to overheat in a jam. If you do get in a jam on your way to work, "bluetooth" allows you to have a hands-free conference call. In a jam, you can also pull out your electronic devices and work from your carseat, and not get a ticket. In 1984, no one had phones or electronic devices in their cars and people were more social, for lack of electronic devices, and the morning commute was often a social experience. I just don't see anyone seriously advocating for rail extensions when their solutions in life, and means of social interaction, are in the palms of their hands. Passenger service above Norristown never should have ceased. When Reading's Terminal closed, SEPTA could have kept and run express diesels out of 30th Street, and onto Reading's Main line via Belmont, stopping at Bridgeport instead of Norristown (that is still an option, but very unlikely).

[loufah]

If they purchase 6 diesels for the service to Pottstown, they could use the capital savings to study having the SVM follow the Reading Mainline from CP NORRIS - Belmont Jct - to Park Junction, and use the old city Branch ROW to reach center city.

Wouldn't possessing diesels make SEPTA less able to fend off demands for extending service?

[Push&Pull Master]

Compare car travel within the past 30 years - Today, due to electronic advancements, a car is less likely to overheat in a jam. If you do get in a jam on your way to work, "bluetooth" allows you to have a hands-free conference call. In a jam, you can also pull out your electronic devices and work from your carseat, and not get a ticket. In 1984, no one had phones or electronic devices in their cars and people were more social, for lack of electronic devices, and the morning commute was often a social experience. I just don't see anyone seriously advocating for rail extensions when their solutions in life, and means of social interaction, are in the palms of their hands. Passenger service above Norristown never should have ceased. When Reading's Terminal closed, SEPTA could have kept and run express diesels out of 30th Street, and onto Reading's Main line via Belmont, stopping at Bridgeport instead of Norristown (that is still an option, but very unlikely).

The Center City Commuter Tunnel had nothing to do with the diesel services being cut. The intercity diesel services (Pottsville/Reading, Bethlehem/Quakertown, and Newark NJ) were funded by Penndot, not SEPTA. In 1981, Gov. Dick Thornburgh ordered Penndot to cut the intercity rail funding and divert it to highway projects. SEPTA wasn't allowed to fund these rail lines because they were out of the Five County Service Area. Hence, they ended. By the way, SEPTA actually had a plan for the diesel services following the completion of the tunnel before Penndot cut the funding. The trains would be made into diesel shuttles, forcing passengers to transfer at Norristown, Lansdale, West Trenton, and Fox Chase. Then, SEPTA would electrify the entire Newtown branch (SEPTA actually received a grant for this in 1983), and I believe also Norristown to Phoenixville. I can't remember what would've happened with the Bethlehem Branch. The remaining diesel shuttles would stay as well.

Regarding this rail corridor, I personally think that SEPTA and DVRPC should revisit the alternatives from the R6 Extension Study and start over.

[Tritransit Area]

Compare car travel within the past 30 years - Today, due to electronic advancements, a car is less likely to overheat in a jam. If you do get in a jam on your way to work, "bluetooth" allows you to have a hands-free conference call. In a jam, you can also pull out your electronic devices and work from your carseat, and not get a ticket. In 1984, no one had phones or electronic devices in their cars and people were more social, for lack of electronic devices, and the morning commute was often a social experience. I just don't see anyone seriously advocating for rail extensions when their solutions in life, and means of social interaction, are in the palms of their hands. Passenger service above Norristown never should have ceased. When Reading's Terminal closed, SEPTA could have kept and run express diesels out of 30th Street, and onto Reading's Main line via Belmont, stopping at Bridgeport instead of Norristown (that is still an option, but very unlikely).

The Center City Commuter Tunnel had nothing to do with the diesel services being cut. The intercity diesel services (Pottsville/Reading, Bethlehem/Quakertown, and Newark NJ) were funded by Penndot, not SEPTA. In 1981, Gov. Dick Thornburgh ordered Penndot to cut the intercity rail funding and divert it to highway projects. SEPTA wasn't allowed to fund these rail lines because they were out of the Five County Service Area. Hence, they ended. By the way, SEPTA actually had a plan for the diesel services following the completion of the tunnel before Penndot cut the funding. The trains would be made into diesel shuttles, forcing passengers to transfer at Norristown, Lansdale, West Trenton, and Fox Chase. Then, SEPTA would electrify the entire Newtown branch (SEPTA actually received a grant for this in 1983), and I believe also Norristown to Phoenixville. I can't remember what would've happened with the Bethlehem Branch. The remaining diesel shuttles would stay as well.

Regarding this rail corridor, I personally think that SEPTA and DVRPC should revisit the alternatives from the R6 Extension Study and start over.

Now THAT is an interesting tidbit of information that I did not know, and it actually makes quite a bit of sense. I'm curious as to why the Keystone Corridor managed to retain its funding while the other services were cut. Are there any places where I can find more information about this?

[ExCon90]

wow. The operating costs show an engineer making just shy of $42 per hour. Not too shabby!

....And weekends off!

Since it's a cost calculation, presumably all benefits, e.g. pensions and medical, are included -- not just wages. And I wouldn't be too sure about the weekends off.

[Push&Pull Master]

Compare car travel within the past 30 years - Today, due to electronic advancements, a car is less likely to overheat in a jam. If you do get in a jam on your way to work, "bluetooth" allows you to have a hands-free conference call. In a jam, you can also pull out your electronic devices and work from your carseat, and not get a ticket. In 1984, no one had phones or electronic devices in their cars and people were more social, for lack of electronic devices, and the morning commute was often a social experience. I just don't see anyone seriously advocating for rail extensions when their solutions in life, and means of social interaction, are in the palms of their hands. Passenger service above Norristown never should have ceased. When Reading's Terminal closed, SEPTA could have kept and run express diesels out of 30th Street, and onto Reading's Main line via Belmont, stopping at Bridgeport instead of Norristown (that is still an option, but very unlikely).

The Center City Commuter Tunnel had nothing to do with the diesel services being cut. The intercity diesel services (Pottsville/Reading, Bethlehem/Quakertown, and Newark NJ) were funded by Penndot, not SEPTA. In 1981, Gov. Dick Thornburgh ordered Penndot to cut the intercity rail funding and divert it to highway projects. SEPTA wasn't allowed to fund these rail lines because they were out of the Five County Service Area. Hence, they ended. By the way, SEPTA actually had a plan for the diesel services following the completion of the tunnel before Penndot cut the funding. The trains would be made into diesel shuttles, forcing passengers to transfer at Norristown, Lansdale, West Trenton, and Fox Chase. Then, SEPTA would electrify the entire Newtown branch (SEPTA actually received a grant for this in 1983), and I believe also Norristown to Phoenixville. I can't remember what would've happened with the Bethlehem Branch. The remaining diesel shuttles would stay as well.

Regarding this rail corridor, I personally think that SEPTA and DVRPC should revisit the alternatives from the R6 Extension Study and start over.

Now THAT is an interesting tidbit of information that I did not know, and it actually makes quite a bit of sense. I'm curious as to why the Keystone Corridor managed to retain its funding while the other services were cut. Are there any places where I can find more information about this?

The Keystone Corridor retained its funding because it was electrified between Harrisburg and Philadelphia. Basically, all the diesel services except for the Amtrak trains (and the Newtown Branch because it was funded by SEPTA and in the service area, and it became a "rapid transit route") were cut. It's a real shame

[PhilliesPhan2013]

Compare car travel within the past 30 years - Today, due to electronic advancements, a car is less likely to overheat in a jam. If you do get in a jam on your way to work, "bluetooth" allows you to have a hands-free conference call. In a jam, you can also pull out your electronic devices and work from your carseat, and not get a ticket. In 1984, no one had phones or electronic devices in their cars and people were more social, for lack of electronic devices, and the morning commute was often a social experience. I just don't see anyone seriously advocating for rail extensions when their solutions in life, and means of social interaction, are in the palms of their hands. Passenger service above Norristown never should have ceased. When Reading's Terminal closed, SEPTA could have kept and run express diesels out of 30th Street, and onto Reading's Main line via Belmont, stopping at Bridgeport instead of Norristown (that is still an option, but very unlikely).

The Center City Commuter Tunnel had nothing to do with the diesel services being cut. The intercity diesel services (Pottsville/Reading, Bethlehem/Quakertown, and Newark NJ) were funded by Penndot, not SEPTA. In 1981, Gov. Dick Thornburgh ordered Penndot to cut the intercity rail funding and divert it to highway projects. SEPTA wasn't allowed to fund these rail lines because they were out of the Five County Service Area. Hence, they ended. By the way, SEPTA actually had a plan for the diesel services following the completion of the tunnel before Penndot cut the funding. The trains would be made into diesel shuttles, forcing passengers to transfer at Norristown, Lansdale, West Trenton, and Fox Chase. Then, SEPTA would electrify the entire Newtown branch (SEPTA actually received a grant for this in 1983), and I believe also Norristown to Phoenixville. I can't remember what would've happened with the Bethlehem Branch. The remaining diesel shuttles would stay as well.

Regarding this rail corridor, I personally think that SEPTA and DVRPC should revisit the alternatives from the R6 Extension Study and start over.

Very interesting. I wonder if PennDot would ever restore funding to these diesel lines. I'm thinking that it would be highly unlikely since many of Pennsylvania's roads and highways (I-95 South through Delco, both sides of I-78 west of the Lehigh Valley, etc) are in such bad shape. New Jersey could always subsidize the Newark, NJ train if SEPTA and PennDot wanted to go through with it.

[BuddCar711]

The Keystone Corridor retained its funding because it was electrified between Harrisburg and Philadelphia. Basically, all the diesel services except for the Amtrak trains (and the Newtown Branch because it was funded by SEPTA and in the service area, and it became a "rapid transit route") were cut. It's a real shame

So if SEPTA electrifies those routes (which may happen after my great, great, great,great, great grandchildren are dead of old age), then maybe PennDOT would resume funding?