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  • potential amtrak aem7 lease

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1283659  by wagz
 
The EGE wrote:The ACS-64s are capable of pulling 14 Amfleet-type cars at 135 mph, or 18 cars at 125 mph. You don't need that for 7-car SEPTA trains at 90mph, even to get them up to speed.
So? A typical Northeast Regional consist is 7 or 8 Amfleets, so no major difference than a 7 car SEPTA Bomber set (and this is not even counting the fact a SEPTA Bomber coach can hold significantly more passengers than an Amfleet). Granted the long distance trains are slightly longer, but they're still not 14 cars. AEM-7s are hauling 5 car Keystone consists today and soon enough the ACS-64 will as well. I don't think Amtrak needs 8600hp (or the 7000hp on an AEM-7 today) to haul 5 Amfleets around but they'll do it anyway.

And are we forgetting that SEPTA has expressed interest in acquiring multilevel coaches for capacity increases? 7 multilevel coaches of whatever design is picked will weigh more than 7 Bomber coaches plus the possible extra passenger count.

The push-pull trains are agonizingly slow accelerating as it is, lets not make it worse.

Of course I'm not addressing the substation issue. I'm curious what the actual power draw of an ACS-64 vs an AEM-7 is.
 #1283676  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Power draw's an apples/oranges thing because of the regenerative braking on the Sprinters. AEM-7's just radiate their braking energy off as waste heat, Sprinters generate their own electricity off it and put it back into the grid. What effect that has on the substations depends entirely on tolerances for spikes and dips in the load and how many trains total you're running on the substation. A regen braking vehicle's not necessarily going to help if it's more power-hungry on acceleration, and it's not necessarily going to help if it saves a little but the Silverliners are still stretching Reading to the limit. Given how few push-pull units SEPTA runs total, it's probably negligible overall. Silverliner VI procurement is still going to be the one that forces the issue with Reading.


As for car weights...couldn't find on Google any specs for the Comet I or Bombardier MLV. I did find these:
Amfleet: 110,000 lbs.
Comet V: 110,000 lbs.
Bombardier BLV (the original, non-East Coast double-decker Bombardier car): 110,000 lbs.

And as for seating capacity affecting that weight...well, no commuter consist in North America is going to be carrying an assortment of cafe cars, sleepers, and baggage cars like the NEC routes--Regional, LD's, or everything in-between--carry in-consist and which the Sprinters were designed to be overpowered to handle. On per-car weight Amtrak is still going to average heavier than a MLV packed with generally single-purpose commuters. Likewise, going from single to multi-level means needing fewer cars per consist if deployed on push-pull runs that are not perpetually sold out. If 5 MLV's have the seating capacity of 7 Comets, SEPTA's not going to match 1:1 car length on every pre-existing push-pull and just let everybody kick their feet up on the furniture. They'll shorten the consist if it wasn't previously overcrowded and apply the spares to an extra push-pull train (which would logically mean they'd benefit from 1-2 more locos padded to the order for added flex).

It's a spurious assumption that "MOAR POWER!!! = AWESOMER!!!". If you want the peak acceleration performance and Larry Leadfoot in the cab to floor it out of every station to save 5 seconds of schedule time you buy Silverliner VI's and don't even bother with another generation of push-pulls. SEPTA clearly has other obvious service efficiencies it gets out of running the push-pull fleet that are not acceleration-related, or else they wouldn't be buying them. I totally get it if it's simply cheaper to buy a software de-rated ACS-64 instead of a physically smaller engine for expediency's sake. But they're not passing anything up by going sub-6400 HP because of the very different hauling needs of an Amtrak vs. commuter train. And they would probably prefer a de-rated engine because it would rack up less overall wear-and-tear not pushing the components to their load limit on a commuter rail service with frequent starts/stops and a 90 MPH speed limit. SEPTA would have to midlife-rebuild these 1-2 times. Amtrak hedges on running 'em till they drop unless the units convincingly exceed their expected midlife condition (like the AEM-7's did) and merit the rebuild.
 #1283725  by afiggatt
 
25Hz wrote:MARC going all diesel? have not heard that one.
Yes. MARC placed an order in 2013 for 10 additional MPI MP36PH-3C diesel locomotives to replace their AEM-7 and HHP-8 electrics. So MARC is not seeking to piggyback on the Amtrak order for ACS-64s. Which leaves SEPTA as the only east coast transit agency that is seeking electric locomotives at the present time.

One factor in placing a piggy-back / follow-on order with Siemens is that Siemens won the Next Gen diesel locomotive contract to build 35 diesels for the Mid-west states (IL, MI, MO), CA, and WA with options for up to 225 additional diesel locomotives. Because the 2009 stimulus funding is providing most of the funding for the Next Gen diesel initial order of 35 units and the stimulus funds have to be spent by September 30, 2017, Siemens has to deliver most, if not almost all, of the diesels by the summer of 2017. So a SEPTA order with Siemens for a batch of ACS-64s configured for its needs may have to wait in the queue until the Charger diesel production run has built enough units. That may be part of the calculations in leasing AEM-7ACs from Amtrak.
 #1283741  by R36 Combine Coach
 
The ACS-64 order is slated for completion in 2016, so will some of the new passenger diesels roll of the line alongside the last Sprinters?
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