Railroad Forums 

  • SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1534635  by JeffK
 
andrewjw wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:02 pm The penny-wise pound-foolish comment was with regards to trying to preserve every aspect of the paper fare system on the Key instead of building a fare schedule that fits the medium better. For instance, the current proposal to charge the cash fare to conctactless bank card riders.
I agree completely. It’s a point that several of us have made in SEPTA's direction, to no avail. A couple of mid-level people told me that the planning process was saturated with fear that anything beyond the most minor changes risked losing revenue. To paraphrase one of them, "We understand our current revenue streams. If we start with a clean slate we won’t know where revenue is coming from or where it’s going". OK, I’m not an expert, but to me that sounds fuzzy at best and disingenuous at worst.

You might think they’d have researched other operators' experiences or even hired experts to model rider behavior under various scenarios ... but as we all know they lurched ahead on an e-replica of the legacy system, and came up way short.
 #1534850  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone:

The beginning of March - especially Monday March 2 one week from today - has the potential of being the busiest first of the month for 2020 with the beginning of the
Flower Show (Saturday February 29 to Sunday March 8) added to the demand for
pass and ticket sales. For those unaware Flower Show Week is perhaps the single
highest ridership period of the year for SEPTA Regional Rail.

https://www.septa.org/events/flower.html

The only remaining Legacy Pass that continues to be readily available is the
Cross County Pass.
In the past year the limit on weekday transit use in Philadelphia was lifted - the only
restriction is to the five Center City stations on Regional Rail on weekdays. This change created another variation of the Anywhere Pass with a lower price minus the use of
the five CCP stations on weekdays. The cost: $115/month and $30.75/week.

The text on the back of Cross County Passes reads:
Valid on any SEPTA vehicle with additional fare required on weekday Regional Rail
trains to/from/through stations identified as CCP Stations.

There are ways to get around the weekday Center City restriction - with the best
single example being the Broad Street Line at Fern Rock. For that matter using a
CC Pass to access Center City is easier from the Reading side of Regional Rail.

I learned of two significant changes with the Key implementation that may affect
riders in the coming week - especially on Monday March 2:

1-The first working day of the new month policy in which passes were valid until
10 AM is for Legacy Passes only - Monthly Passes placed on the Key expire at 2 AM
of the first day of the new month. This is written in the current Regional Rail tariff.

2-If a rider has a valid current Weekly Pass on the Key (February 24-March 1) and
wants to purchase a March Monthly Pass they will have to wait until Monday March
2 because the Key can not recognize two different fare types together at the same
time. Riders can purchase passes of the same type in advance without problems.

MACTRAXX
 #1534853  by rcthompson04
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:50 pm
2-If a rider has a valid current Weekly Pass on the Key (February 24-March 1) and
wants to purchase a March Monthly Pass they will have to wait until Monday March
2 because the Key can not recognize two different fare types together at the same
time. Riders can purchase passes of the same type in advance without problems.

MACTRAXX
I don’t think this is correct as I have repeatedly done some variation of the two products at once over the last year and a half.

I have had an expiring weekly or monthly with a new monthly or weekly bought several days before becoming effective. I have also had an Independence Pass that was being used on one day and a weekly or monthly starting the following week.
 #1534855  by MACTRAXX
 
RCT: I was informed of the potential problem concerning two pass types loaded to
the Key at the same time this past week by a RRD sales agent. The limitation may
be due to the small laptop computer and scanning device that sales staffers use.
Legacy Passes do not have these problems - or for that matter caps on rides...
MACTRAXX
 #1534859  by rcthompson04
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:04 pm RCT: I was informed of the potential problem concerning two pass types loaded to
the Key at the same time this past week by a RRD sales agent. The limitation may
be due to the small laptop computer and scanning device that sales staffers use.
Legacy Passes do not have these problems - or for that matter caps on rides...
MACTRAXX
Okay that makes sense. I have been buying passes for the Key cards primarily on the website and SEPTA app. I have not had the issue on the website or app. I have only talked to an agent regarding a Key card once in a year (to buy another one and it was a disaster).
 #1534883  by ryan92084
 
For outlying station purchases that is correct. You can preload next weeks weekly if you have a current weekly or next month's monthly if you have a current monthly but until a your current weekly/monthly expires you can not swap to the other type. This is also true for the kiosk machines last i had access to one.

Good point about the monthly expiration I had missed/forgotten that one. It is confirmed here http://www.septa.org/key/products.html
 #1534897  by MichaelBug
 
Basically, Key will only allow one CURRENTLY VALID pass at a time to be loaded onto a card. As everyone has mentioned, you can extend a specific weekly or monthly pass type in person, on the app, or at a kiosk-as long as that pass type is currently valid & is loaded on the catd.

However, at least at one kiosk (Drexel Hill Junction on the 101/102 trolley lines), you can ONLY extend a pre-existing TrailPass. That kiosk does not offer the option to add a NEW TrailPass if none is loaded. It will only allow you to add a one-day Convenience Pass, TransPass, or Travel Wallet value. (I haven't tried any other kiosks, they are very few & far between in central & western Montgomery County.)
 #1534914  by ryan92084
 
MichaelBug wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:33 pm Basically, Key will only allow one CURRENTLY VALID pass at a time to be loaded onto a card. As everyone has mentioned, you can extend a specific weekly or monthly pass type in person, on the app, or at a kiosk-as long as that pass type is currently valid & is loaded on the catd.

However, at least at one kiosk (Drexel Hill Junction on the 101/102 trolley lines), you can ONLY extend a pre-existing TrailPass. That kiosk does not offer the option to add a NEW TrailPass if none is loaded. It will only allow you to add a one-day Convenience Pass, TransPass, or Travel Wallet value. (I haven't tried any other kiosks, they are very few & far between in central & western Montgomery County.)
That is the general rule for all the kiosks afaik. Why? I have no idea. There was a brief period where the kiosks allowed you to load new trailpasses but it was quickly removed and as mentioned you can only extend them now.
 #1535202  by octr202
 
I'm finding the kiosk sales limitations odd. This is just adding to the mystery - is it that SEPTA doesn't think that riders are capable of choosing the correct type of fare product, or are they trying to make it hard to purchase certain types of fares?

In my case last fall, it was trying to add an Independence Pass to my card. I was at 1234 Market (buying old R# signs, of course!), and saw the kiosks and figured since I had some time and was right there, I'd load the IP I was going to use that day. Tried to do so, but of course couldn't - only the Convenience Pass was available. Key attendant says, "Oh, this is just city transit over here, you have to be at a Regional Rail station to buy an Independence Pass." Sure enough, walk across to Jefferson, no problem. Easy enough for me, but were I starting from a subway/el stop w/o a RRD station nearby, apparently I would have been out of luck and had to cough up a single fare to get me to a station where I can buy an IP? Seems absurd.

Footnote: Granted, I've since learned that I can use the SEPTA app to manage the cards, but if you're near a kiosk that's frankly much easier and faster.

Second footnote: The MBTA is probably one of the few other systems where you can buy tickets/passes/fare value for every mode on one machine - you can buy almost any type of commuter rail fare (ticket, 10-ride, or monthly) from the Charlie-system vending machines. There was a period where I was buying my commuter rail passes from the machines (mag stripe ticket passes from ticket windows were on bad stock and kept failing), and it was a bit of a game to see how far off the beaten path I could find a Charlie machine to buy next month's pass. I've never encountered a Charlie-system machine that wouldn't sell commuter rail fares just because it wasn't at a commuter rail station.
 #1535220  by JimBoylan
 
I've bought train tickets from a New Jersey Transit kiosk at a bus stop in the Meadowlands Exposition Center.
 #1535270  by MichaelBug
 
I have successfully purchased tickets for NJT's #126 bus (Hoboken-NY Port Authority Bus Terminal) at the NJT ticket machine at 30th Street Station.
 #1535273  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Newark Penn Station has machines that sell tickets for bus, light rail and rail.

Station agents at the following stations also sell bus and light rail: Newark Penn Station, Hoboken, Elizabeth, New Brunswick, Princeton Junction, Hamilton, Trenton, Long Branch, Asbury Park, Brick Church, Orange, South Orange, Summit, Morristown, Cranford, Westfield, Fanwood, Plainfield, Dunellen and Ridgewood.
 #1535283  by tgolanos
 
Question about purchasing a Key Card:
The SEPTA Key website apparently blocks overseas IP addresses, so I can't locate a retailer that isn't one of the major stations (30th Street, Market East, Suburban, etc). I'll be in the Collegeville-area in late March/early April, so I was wondering if anyone knows any Key retailers in that area.

Specifically, I'd be mostly using Independence Passes. I see that they're now limited to 10 rides (how independent). Can I purchase these online prior to travel if I have a Key card or is there some other convoluted way I need to do this? Again, SEPTA blocks me from the "Purchasing Fares" section, so I'm pretty in the dark here.
 #1535289  by rcthompson04
 
tgolanos wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:49 am Question about purchasing a Key Card:
The SEPTA Key website apparently blocks overseas IP addresses, so I can't locate a retailer that isn't one of the major stations (30th Street, Market East, Suburban, etc). I'll be in the Collegeville-area in late March/early April, so I was wondering if anyone knows any Key retailers in that area.

Specifically, I'd be mostly using Independence Passes. I see that they're now limited to 10 rides (how independent). Can I purchase these online prior to travel if I have a Key card or is there some other convoluted way I need to do this? Again, SEPTA blocks me from the "Purchasing Fares" section, so I'm pretty in the dark here.
You can purchase a Key card, register it and order Independence Pass as you need via the SEPTAKey website or the SEPTA mobile app if you have registered a card.
 #1535292  by MACTRAXX
 
TG (and Everyone:)

The nearest station with a weekday ticket office is Norristown TC (DeKalb St.)
serving the Manayunk/Norristown Line and the NHSL from Collegeville.

Legacy Individual (and Family) Independence Passes offer UNLIMITED RIDES.
I Passes placed on the Key card are limited to TEN RIDES.
Legacy I Passes are available at ALL Regional Rail ticket offices.

The currently sold Legacy I Passes are dated 2019-2022 and are validated upon
first use with the month and date (1-31) punched. Individual I Passes cost $13.

Why would anyone purchase an I Pass on the Key with the 10 ride limit when the
Legacy I Passes offer unlimited rides and are good for use until the end of 2022?

MACTRAXX
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