When SEPTA brought back late night subway service

[Clearfield]

Fares can, in fact be collected on busy trains. Septa has done a poor job of this since i cam remember (20 years).

I disagree. I've been on RRD trains that were so full that there is no way for a conductor to walk down an aisle choked with standees. NPT won't fix this on the RRD but it will fix it in the subways and El.

[SCB2525]

A better way to combat RRD fare collection trains is to reduce the crowding by increasing seats and developing better special event service plans.

[Quinn]

I've been on RRD trains that were so full that there is no way for a conductor to walk down an aisle choked with standees.

Same here. When work put us up in hotels during snow storms, I often would just take the train at either end of my stint in the city. Probably every time I was released to go home, post storm, the trains were so packed that it was damn near impossible for anyone to get down an aisle. Fares were not collected.

[CComMack]

Fares can, in fact be collected on busy trains. Septa has done a poor job of this since i cam remember (20 years).

I disagree. I've been on RRD trains that were so full that there is no way for a conductor to walk down an aisle choked with standees. NPT won't fix this on the RRD but it will fix it in the subways and El.

To clarify, I was under the impression that NPT would fix this on the RRD, albeit accidentally, by way of the otherwise-harebrained move to gate the platforms in Center City. Am I misunderstanding the proposal, or is your assessment just part of the common viewpoint that the RRD side of NPT is doomed to failure?

[Clearfield]

To clarify, I was under the impression that NPT would fix this on the RRD, albeit accidentally, by way of the otherwise-harebrained move to gate the platforms in Center City. Am I misunderstanding the proposal, or is your assessment just part of the common viewpoint that the RRD side of NPT is doomed to failure?

I should clarify. I was referring to inbound traffic. Outbound from CC will be collected before passengers can get to the platforms.

[SCB2525]

I thought the idea was to tap in at your home station (though not with a turnstile). In that case, the only fares not collected would be the on-board fare.

[Clearfield]

I thought the idea was to tap in at your home station (though not with a turnstile). In that case, the only fares not collected would be the on-board fare.

If they tap in the outlying station and tap out in CC, yes the fare is collected.

If they don't tap in at the outlying station and get off and a non-CC station the ride is free

[jackintosh11]

There will be fare inspectors and fines for fare evaders.

[ExCon90]

If they had fare inspectors and fines for evaders they could have a Proof of Payment system and wouldn't need turnstiles. POP works all over the world, but the SEPTA people have got it firmly into their heads that it won't work in Philadelphia. Would it be something in the water?

[Clearfield]

If they had fare inspectors and fines for evaders they could have a Proof of Payment system and wouldn't need turnstiles. POP works all over the world, but the SEPTA people have got it firmly into their heads that it won't work in Philadelphia. Would it be something in the water?

SEPTA wanted the gates so badly that they convinced the local politicians that POP wouldn't work in Philadelphia. It works in Manhattan tho.............

[loufah]

I read here that SEPTA bus and trolley operators were instructed not to challenge passengers who didn't want to pay. What do you think will happen to fare inspectors trying to serve a passenger with a $75 ticket? Will they be armed?

[ExCon90]

Depends on who the inspectors are. I've seen armed officers from the Sheriff's department on the Blue Line in Los Angeles. And I think the ones on the RiverLINE are sworn officers of some sort, with powers to remove deadbeat riders from the train. I should mention that a key element of a successful POP program is that the politicians need to have some backbone (maybe THAT'S why POP won't work in Philadelphia!); the transit agency and the fare inspectors have to have the backing of the local authorities. It certainly isn't reasonable to task a transit employee with enforcing the law, to say nothing of the fact that you don't want a bus being detained at the bus stop while the driver has to argue with a nonpayer.

[Clearfield]

I read here that SEPTA bus and trolley operators were instructed not to challenge passengers who didn't want to pay. What do you think will happen to fare inspectors trying to serve a passenger with a $75 ticket? Will they be armed?

I believe the fare evasion fine from SEPTA is $150. SEPTA shouldn't plan on balancing the budget on fare evasion fines on buses.

HOWEVER, the cameras are already helping to apprehend fare evaders underground.

[SCB2525]

I thought the idea was to tap in at your home station (though not with a turnstile). In that case, the only fares not collected would be the on-board fare.

If they tap in the outlying station and tap out in CC, yes the fare is collected.

If they don't tap in at the outlying station and get off and a non-CC station the ride is free

I feel like basically making travel from any non CC station to any non CC station free would more than negate recouping the occasional lost fares due to crowding.

What is keeping someone from taking a bus to an inner non CC station (Overbrook, East Falls, Wayne Jct, etc) to avoid having to buy a railroad fare?

[ExCon90]

As far as I can see, only his conscience ....