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  • SEPTA to get multi-level railroad coaches

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1247540  by zebrasepta
 
MACTRAXX wrote: I can see a small add-on order for ACS45 locomotives and some of these coaches if SEPTA was to take control of the PHL-
HAR route from Amtrak but unless PennDot decides to drastically cut this funding I do not see this happening...
Do you mean ACS-64 or an ALP-45?
 #1247907  by MACTRAXX
 
zebrasepta wrote:
MACTRAXX wrote: I can see a small add-on order for ACS45 locomotives and some of these coaches if SEPTA was to take control of the PHL-
HAR route from Amtrak but unless PennDot decides to drastically cut this funding I do not see this happening...
Do you mean ACS-64 or an ALP-45?
ZS: You caught my "typo" here...ACS64 was what I wanted to mention...ALP45s at $9 million dollars each are definitely
not on SEPTA's equipment list unless there was strong PennDot and local commitment to routes like Bethlehem and Reading service...
(as examples)

I was trying to post quickly on Sunday 2/2 before the Super Bowl began...
MACTRAXX
 #1248028  by R3 Passenger
 
Well, with the upcoming rewriting of FRA regulations to allow lighter equipment to be run, I am sure SEPTA would take full advantage of lightweight multilevels. However, the problem that SEPTA faces with multilevels is clearance under bridges and in tunnels. Since the NJT Multilevel is a proven design at this point, it would make sense for SEPTA to start there.

When I brought up the potential for NJT Multilevel EMUs (MLEMU), I was only alluding to the fact that SEPTA could either collaborate with NJT on designing a MLEMU, or tack on to NJT's order to replace the Silverliner IVs with MLEMUs. There is a lot of synergy to be had there.

But first things first: Can't have new MLVs without something to pull them, and SEPTA's AEM7s/ALP44 can barely pull the single level coaches as is.

Edit: Specified locomotives as those belonging to SEPTA
Last edited by R3 Passenger on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1248116  by Clearfield
 
R3 Passenger wrote:But first things first: Can't have new MLVs without something to pull them, and the AEM7/ALP44 can barely pull the single level coaches as is.
I dunno, but AMTRAK has been using AEM7's to pull long consists on the NEC at 125mph for quite some time now.
 #1248250  by R3 Passenger
 
Clearfield wrote:
R3 Passenger wrote:But first things first: Can't have new MLVs without something to pull them, and the AEM7/ALP44 can barely pull the single level coaches as is.
I dunno, but AMTRAK has been using AEM7's to pull long consists on the NEC at 125mph for quite some time now.
Bob, I was referring to SEPTA's tired and worn out AEM-7s and ALP-44. I am not considering Amtrak corridor equipment present, past, or future.
 #1248279  by dowlingm
 
R3 Passenger wrote:Can't have new MLVs without something to pull them, and SEPTA's AEM7s/ALP44 can barely pull the single level coaches as is.
Maybe one at either end and dispense with cab cars, assuming SEPTA could obtain some additional power units with any sort of remaining shelf life cascaded from other agencies? It would be interesting to see it at least tried if NJT would loan a set for a short period when they have all of its MLV2s / Sandy repairs delivered. EMUs would be the best technical solution but maybe SEPTA would rather a proven vehicle of which MLVs are farther along the development curve?
 #1250067  by Patrick Boylan
 
For quite a while the line in the article
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/t ... EPTA_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
between Wayne Junction and Glenside stations, SEPTA has two tracks and more than 100 trains scheduled on each track during rush hour.
bothered me.
Septa runs less than 30 trains each way during each peak period, and about 80 each way in one weekday. I posted a comment on the article, with the exact figures I gleaned from the combined Glenside schedule, but it doesn't show yet. I assume it's still pending review.
 #1250101  by Clearfield
 
Patrick Boylan wrote:For quite a while the line in the article
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/t ... EPTA_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
between Wayne Junction and Glenside stations, SEPTA has two tracks and more than 100 trains scheduled on each track during rush hour.
bothered me.
Septa runs less than 30 trains each way during each peak period, and about 80 each way in one weekday. I posted a comment on the article, with the exact figures I gleaned from the combined Glenside schedule, but it doesn't show yet. I assume it's still pending review.
Its a factual error by the reporter, but doesn't change the fundamentals of the story.
 #1255067  by NorthPennLimited
 
Rumor is, the top-floor guys at 1234 have a field trip planned this month to look at NJT bi-levels and an ACS 64 at Morrisville or Wilmington.

Once they see toilets and 2x2 seating, they will run away.

Instead, they will probably go to the bargain basement sale and buy some more comets and slightly used AEM-7's
 #1255081  by CComMack
 
The real question is: how much vertical clearance is there actually at the 20th Street tunnel portal? And how much more could be obtained with cheap modifications? If we're stuck with NJT's Multilevels, that's one thing. If we have the option to shop around for another model, we can come out ahead. (We have no reason to use the North River Tunnels as our clearance envelope if we don't have to.) If SEPTA is actually doing inspection trips to New Jersey, I'm sure we'll see them doing due diligence on this with a visit to MBTA's bilevels down on Weccacoe Ave in the near future as well, assuming Rotem isn't completely persona non grata at 1234 after the Silverliner V delays.

If SEPTA thought it could meet its needs with a single-level car, it would have said so. They are really looking for higher capacity than they can get from a Comet.
 #1255117  by nomis
 
The MBTA Brokems will be convertibles when they come into Suburban or Market east :-)
 #1255135  by 25Hz
 
As far as i know, the MLV are the shortest dual floor railcar, and are only an inch taller than a genesis, which is itself pretty short for a "full size" diesel.

It's also one of few, or the only, that can use low and high platforms.
 #1255167  by R3 Passenger
 
CComMack wrote:We have no reason to use the North River Tunnels as our clearance envelope if we don't have to.
True, but if you sit down and actually think about it, both the North River Tunnels and Suburban Station were PRR-built structures. It wouldn't make sense for the PRR to build them with different height clearances. Being that the PRR loved calling itself the "Standard Railroad of the World," one would think that they would use consistent clearances across the system.

The North River Tunnels were built between 1902 and 1904, and fully completed by 1910. Suburban Station was completed in 1930. Why would the PRR want to build the Suburban clearances less than the North River Tunnel clearances? City Core to City Core service would definitely have been a marketing point for the PRR.
 #1255200  by Patrick Boylan
 
25Hz wrote:As far as i know, the MLV are the shortest dual floor railcar, and are only an inch taller than a genesis, which is itself pretty short for a "full size" diesel.

It's also one of few, or the only, that can use low and high platforms.
What is "the MLV" and what do you mean by "dual floor railcar"?
There are many pieces of passenger rail equipment that can use low and high platforms. In fact the only ones I know of that regularly run between Boston and Washington that can't use both high and low level platforms are the Acela Expresses. Everything else Amtrak and all the commuter agencies use have at least one high level door per car with traps for low level platforms.

If I've said anything provocative, please let me know, I'm sorry.
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