Proposed Rail Extension To King of Prussia, PA

[mshaw]

As the summer approaches, King of Prussia, PA, king of malls (with apologies to The Mall in Minneapolis, MN) has another
set of forums slated to talk about when and if the passenger rails are ever coming back to KOP. It's only been decades and
traffic is unreal so what's the rush? There are a lot of serious folks committed to making it happen. If only the township had
the foresight to hold onto their asset, the abandoned and torn up rails of the old Chester Valley Railroad (torn up in the early
1990s), then the arduous task of negotiating with Norfolk Southern wouldn't have had to come to bear.

I talk about this in greater depth in my forthcoming book, "The Railroads Of King of Prussia, PA: The Past Leads To The
Future" and on http://www.kingofprussiarailroads.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Any thoughts?

[gprimr1]

This one will be interesting. KOP does have a ton of traffic and it does make sense to have transit; however, there is one concern.

I live in Baltimore and we have Hunt Valley mall. Hunt Valley was destroyed by the arrival of the light rail.

I hope that they will learn the lessons from Hunt Valley so transit becomes a plus for KOP, not a negative.

[The EGE]

Greg, how was Hunt Valley destroyed by light rail? I'm not particularly familiar with the area, but I'm having trouble seeing how light rail hurt 16 years after the mall opened.

[mtuandrew]

Welcome, mshaw!

Don't apologize to the Mall of America, apologize to the New South China Mall (or the West Edmonton Mall, closer to the USA.)

Otherwise, I'm going to move this thread to the SEPTA forum. SEPTA would be the likely operator of heavy rail KoP service, and a healthy discussion has already happened in that forum.

[25Hz]

We really do need it. Been out there dozens of times, traffic is always a massive headache.

They are planning an expansion of the mall, so i think that is a cue to take a really serious look into pushing re-activation.

[Matthew Mitchell]

The main beneficiaries of the system will be mall workers and their employers, along with employers elsewhere in the area.

[RRspatch]

This one will be interesting. KOP does have a ton of traffic and it does make sense to have transit; however, there is one concern.

I live in Baltimore and we have Hunt Valley mall. Hunt Valley was destroyed by the arrival of the light rail.

I hope that they will learn the lessons from Hunt Valley so transit becomes a plus for KOP, not a negative.

I'm curious, how was Hunt Valley mall destroyed by light rail? I lived in Cockysville back in the mid 80's. Back then, long before light rail made it out that far, Hunt Valley mall was already dieing. In fact most of us back then called it "Death Valley mall". Back then if you wanted to go to a large mall and you were near the beltway, you automatically went to White Marsh mall.

Looking at the Google satellite view http://goo.gl/maps/SJBtN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; it looks like the middle of the old mall has been torn out and made into an "urban life style" type mall. The Bamberger's/Macy's building is still standing at one end of the mall (now a Walmart?) and the Sears building at the other end. The movie theater appears to be in a different location from what I remember. Judging from the numbers of cars in the lots as seen in the Google satellite view it appears the mall isn't doing too bad.

[JeffK]

The main beneficiaries of the system will be mall workers and their employers, along with employers elsewhere in the area.

Past estimates were that the extension would generate 4000-4500 round trips per day, more if the line is extended beyond the malls. Matt, do you know if any more-recent figures are available?

[mshaw]

Great feedback all around! As for any negative effects on the mall due to expanded rail service, I don't see it happening. All
regional studies indicate that the added rails would only benefit the mall and the surrounding businesses. KOP is one of the
most heavily trafficked business corridors in the Philly area so it's much more than the mall that would benefit from the rails.
The KOP population basically doubles every week day from the added workers so they will be here regardless.

[bikentransit]

But the train won't go directly to the mall.....

[25Hz]

But the train won't go directly to the mall.....

They would likely find a way to connect it by bus, be it a shuttle or a path change on an existing route. Not familiar with anything really out that way, gotta look at some maps.

[trackwelder]

there's an old right of way that was known as the king of prussia industrial tack that comes very close to the mall, still in existance, track still in place, if heavily overgrown. trouble is, the turnpike is in the way of a direct connection, and i don't see 'em building a bridge over it.

[JeffK]

But the train won't go directly to the mall.....

Most of the alternatives do have direct service, likely involving some sort of elevated line. The planners have long recognized that service near but not to was one of the many failure points for the doomed SVM.

[askclifford]

All of this conflicts with the construction of the Chester Valley Trail segment from Warner Rd to Norristown via ex RDG CVT ROW and the Turnpike which is fully funded, recently received assurance from the TPC that they can have the turnpike siding, and construction is anticipated to begin this fall.

[rdgrailfan]

could be funny if the closing of the bridge to Norristown gave life to the project. I wonder if a white paper exits within SEPTA that outlines the advantage of abandoning the Norristown end in favor of a KOP connection, Just a thought