New City Branch Proposal

[rrfan2000]

Here's a thought: a new BSS open-cut branch, leaving Broad at Callowhill and w/stations at City College of Phila; the Art Museum; and (via single-track next to the single CSX track) a final station at Girard Ave. That Brewerytown neighborhood actually has a growing population & is improving. Inbound trains could merge into the BSS southbound & terminate at Lombard-South.

[Bill R.]

Here's a thought: a new BSS open-cut branch, leaving Broad at Callowhill and w/stations at City College of Phila; the Art Museum; and (via single-track next to the single CSX track) a final station at Girard Ave. That Brewerytown neighborhood actually has a growing population & is improving. Inbound trains could merge into the BSS southbound & terminate at Lombard-South.

Do we start work on this idea before or after SEPTA shuts down NHSL service between Bridgeport and Norristown for lack of money to repair infrastructure?

[trackwelder]

Here's a thought: a new BSS open-cut branch, leaving Broad at Callowhill and w/stations at City College of Phila; the Art Museum; and (via single-track next to the single CSX track) a final station at Girard Ave. That Brewerytown neighborhood actually has a growing population & is improving. Inbound trains could merge into the BSS southbound & terminate at Lombard-South.

that actually is a pretty great idea,i could even see that as a shuttle that runs back and forth from girard to twelth st. i've always seen the abandoned reading viaduct as a yard to put all the new rolling stock in for when newtown, reading, bethlehem, and west chester service get reactivated. too bad all of those things have about the same chance of ever happening.

[Bill R.]

Whatever the mode is, it still has the problems of the City Branch alignment: too far north of Market St. to be more attractive to passengers than the 48 and 33 buses.

Arch seems to be OK with the 48, but it goes east on Market, not Race. And all that's only for east of Broad. The segment of the market going to jobs west of 16th or so would be ill-served by that alternative.

Matt, after my experience yesterday, I respectfully disagree with the perspective that there would be marginal benefit for 48 riders from a reroute into the City Branch.

I participated in a tour of the City Branch offered by Side Tour and used the Route 48 to get to the start point at the entrance to the Art Museum Perelman Building. Even with the detour along Fairmount Avemue that dropped me at the front door, my travel time from 11th/Arch to 25th/Pennsylvania was still 21 minutes, versus the 18 minutes scheduled between Arch/Broad and 29th/Girard. The 6 miles between Front/Market and 27th/Allegheny is scheduled at 45 minutes, but I suspect it is frequently much longer than that.

My observation is that there are a large number of people using the 48 for local travel along both Arch Street and 22nd Street in Center City which dramatically slows the bus for passengers traveling NW. To the extent that a City Branch reroute speeds east-west travel on the 48, in combination with providing everyone better access to the various destinations adjacent to the right-of-way, I think it is possible to perceive the net impact as positive, in particular for those riders north of the Fairmount neighborhood with long travel times.

I'm certainly realistic about the current financial situation at SEPTA, so I understand that the likelihood of this project moving forward in the near future is virtually non-existent. However, what needs to occur is a legal commitment by the City of Philadelphia (SEPTA is wholly unreliable as a steward of unused rights of way, IMHO) to preserve the City Branch for a future transit facility. And while the Planning Commission document is a step in the right direction, it certainly does not represent such a commitment.

I firmly believe that, once converted into a park, there will never be the political will to introduce transit into the right of way. While I don't rule out a transit facility co-existing with a park where space is available, I am concerned by the fact that the current Viaduct Green vision utilizes virtually all of the right of way with no transit component included. The political leadership in Philadelphia needs to understand the value of the City Branch for future transportation options.

[Patrick Boylan]

Why do you think if SEPTA's a bad steward that another bureaucracy will be any better? In one paragraph you say SEPTA's "wholly unreliable as a steward of unused rights of way". Which agency do you think is better, and why?
In your last paragraph you say "once converted into a park, there will never be the political will to introduce transit into the right of way". Doesn't that imply that other agencies would also be bad stewards?

[Bill R.]

Why do you think if SEPTA's a bad steward that another bureaucracy will be any better? In one paragraph you say SEPTA's "wholly unreliable as a steward of unused rights of way". Which agency do you think is better, and why?
In your last paragraph you say "once converted into a park, there will never be the political will to introduce transit into the right of way". Doesn't that imply that other agencies would also be bad stewards?

I thought I was fairly clear in stating my position: namely, that the City of Philadelphia exercise it's power as a governing body to put into place a legal mandate that the City Branch right of way (a clarification here - the segment west of 13th Street) should be reserved to allow it to be utilized by a transit facility.

Certainly politics are notoriously fickle in the City of Philadelphia. So I can't predict the outcome. But I do know that the City has the power to implement my suggestion.

And I also know, based on representations made by the Side Tour docent, that the conversations between Viaduct Greene leadership and Byron Comati clearly left the Viaduct Greene leadership with the perspective that SEPTA has virtually no interest in this right of way. I can understand the position of SEPTA planning during a point in time when the system doesn't even have the resources to maintain a state of good repair. But I think that the focus should be on longer term, and not limited to the horizon represented by current circumstances or the tenure of current SEPTA leadership.

Certainly SEPTA has a history of not preserving rights of way itself. I can't help but think that SEPTA would be more than happy to transfer at least the responsibility, if not outright ownership, to another party to reduce or eliminate any liability and/or obligations that they currently have. The City is really the only entity that has the power and the potential motivation to provide a check and balance for preventing SEPTA from "giving away the store".

[Matthew Mitchell]

I'd be even less trusting of city government. Council is notoriously parochial: most members couldn't give half a d*** about the good of the city as a whole.

[25Hz]

I personally would love to see articulated trolly buses on a line that took it from 32nd in the brewerytown area, put a loop where the wye was, then another loop by the convention center... Trolley bus could be converted to trolley or bus going forward, or you could simply put light rail flange track in the pavement for now and just run the diesel/hybrid BRT buses, that way you can future-proof it.... Just an idea.

[25Hz]

Something like that.

[trackwelder]

I personally would love to see articulated trolly buses on a line that took it from 32nd in the brewerytown area, put a loop where the wye was, then another loop by the convention center... Trolley bus could be converted to trolley or bus going forward, or you could simply put light rail flange track in the pavement for now and just run the diesel/hybrid BRT buses, that way you can future-proof it.... Just an idea.

septa already has two or three trolleybus routes that they can't be bothered to put back in to service, despite the fact that the overhead is still in place. septa hates trolleys of any sort. city track division is septa's whipping boy, and overhead isn't far behind it. the only reaso trolleys came back to girard ave is because the city threatened to stop paying it's share of septa's budget if they they didn't, and i'm a firm believer that if they could figure out a way to run buses in the subway all the west philly trolleys would disappear overnight.

[25Hz]

I personally would love to see articulated trolly buses on a line that took it from 32nd in the brewerytown area, put a loop where the wye was, then another loop by the convention center... Trolley bus could be converted to trolley or bus going forward, or you could simply put light rail flange track in the pavement for now and just run the diesel/hybrid BRT buses, that way you can future-proof it.... Just an idea.

septa already has two or three trolleybus routes that they can't be bothered to put back in to service, despite the fact that the overhead is still in place. septa hates trolleys of any sort. city track division is septa's whipping boy, and overhead isn't far behind it. the only reaso trolleys came back to girard ave is because the city threatened to stop paying it's share of septa's budget if they they didn't, and i'm a firm believer that if they could figure out a way to run buses in the subway all the west philly trolleys would disappear overnight.

Mmm, but this is a closed route, not one that runs on a public road... yaknowhatimean?

[scotty269]

The future of the City Branch is at stake...

http://www.philly.com/philly/living/201 ... Rodin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The impact on the jungly landscape of the rail bed, which has been dubbed the "low line" by the group that wants to turn it into a trail park, could be equally profound.

Two stories below street level, the trench also benefits from the perception of isolation. Walking its two-mile length, you experience the city at a distance, occasionally glimpsing snippets of the skyline above its massive stone walls. Once capped by the apartment building, the pit behind the Rodin would be reduced, at best, to a dim tunnel. At worst, the corridor would be cut into two useless pieces, rendering the park idea stillborn.

[bikentransit]

They want to put part of a building in the ROW? How can they do that? They don't own it. The trail in the tunnel is a really dumb idea.

[25Hz]

Who is the developer trying to sabotage service restoration? And what, more effing trails?? Really? I still feel the trollybus/LRV RT system is the best way to go. We do not need PCC streetcars and we do not need more pollution from a straight diesel system.

[CComMack]

AFAIK, no air-rights development can obstruct the City Branch ROW (at least, not without SEPTA's permission, which -- even if there's nothing in planning -- is not happening from Joe Casey's SEPTA), but further capping of the trench can put the kibosh on plans to turn the subsurface segment into a linear park. As long as the proposed building is compatible with future transit usage (not just keeping the ROW clear, but also station access, emergency exits, ventilation, etc.), it's more something to be celebrated, both for increasing potential ridership and blocking the Rail Park west of 13th Street.

Of course, the usual suspects would rather scream "conspiracy!" than actually understand the issue at hand...