Regional rail to Pottstown

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rcthompson04
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by rcthompson04 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:20 am

mcgrath618 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:16 pm
Backshophoss wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:16 pm
No wire =no service
SEPTA will NOT buy any Diesel or dual mode power.
NS may not play along anyway
What was under RDG is now lost.
I wouldn't be so sure; I've heard quite the opposite.
Yea from what is in the public domain, it sounds like SEPTA is not really going to pay for it. If the Democrats win the County Commissioner race in Chester County, I suspect the County will come to the plate and pay for part of the extension.

mcgrath618
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by mcgrath618 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:45 am

rcthompson04 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:20 am
mcgrath618 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:16 pm
Backshophoss wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:16 pm
No wire =no service
SEPTA will NOT buy any Diesel or dual mode power.
NS may not play along anyway
What was under RDG is now lost.
I wouldn't be so sure; I've heard quite the opposite.
Yea from what is in the public domain, it sounds like SEPTA is not really going to pay for it. If the Democrats win the County Commissioner race in Chester County, I suspect the County will come to the plate and pay for part of the extension.
I’ve heard that the most SEPTA is willing to pay for us crews. Phoenixville and the county will pay for the lease of Dual Modes.

I’m not sure how they’re getting NS to play ball. Does SEPTA retain trackage rights from the 70s or will they have to lease?

ExCon90
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by ExCon90 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm

I may be getting dates mixed up here, but I think the last passenger service was operated by Conrail under contract to SEPTA (therefore prior to 1983), so the issue of trackage rights did not arise; by the time the line was conveyed to NS the passenger service was long gone.
In any case, I believe that for any sort of viable service to be operated, major track and signal improvements will be necessary to avoid conflicts with NS trains--and Black Rock (?) Tunnel will still be a choke point. Someone will have to pay for that, and it won't be NS.

mcgrath618
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by mcgrath618 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:47 pm

ExCon90 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
I may be getting dates mixed up here, but I think the last passenger service was operated by Conrail under contract to SEPTA (therefore prior to 1983), so the issue of trackage rights did not arise; by the time the line was conveyed to NS the passenger service was long gone.
In any case, I believe that for any sort of viable service to be operated, major track and signal improvements will be necessary to avoid conflicts with NS trains--and Black Rock (?) Tunnel will still be a choke point. Someone will have to pay for that, and it won't be NS.
SEPTA Trains won’t go through Black Rock tunnel. They’ll join the line at Abrams.

glennk419
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:44 pm
Location: Southeastern PA & Cape May County, NJ

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by glennk419 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:12 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:47 pm
ExCon90 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
I may be getting dates mixed up here, but I think the last passenger service was operated by Conrail under contract to SEPTA (therefore prior to 1983), so the issue of trackage rights did not arise; by the time the line was conveyed to NS the passenger service was long gone.
In any case, I believe that for any sort of viable service to be operated, major track and signal improvements will be necessary to avoid conflicts with NS trains--and Black Rock (?) Tunnel will still be a choke point. Someone will have to pay for that, and it won't be NS.
SEPTA Trains won’t go through Black Rock tunnel. They’ll join the line at Abrams.
They'll use the tunnel if they go to Pottstown or Reading though. yes?
Glenn

Backshophoss
Posts: 6320
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by Backshophoss » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:16 pm

SEPTA uses ACSES,NS uses I-ETMS for PTC,this mixed bag is already done by NJT on the Raritan Valley/CASO near the Aldene Ramp.
NS will balk on the ACSES install SEPTA Needs.
SEPTA STAYS far away for diesel service,WILL NOT consider expansion with diesel,they dumped Diesel service ages ago!
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

mcgrath618
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by mcgrath618 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 pm

glennk419 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:12 pm
mcgrath618 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:47 pm
ExCon90 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
I may be getting dates mixed up here, but I think the last passenger service was operated by Conrail under contract to SEPTA (therefore prior to 1983), so the issue of trackage rights did not arise; by the time the line was conveyed to NS the passenger service was long gone.
In any case, I believe that for any sort of viable service to be operated, major track and signal improvements will be necessary to avoid conflicts with NS trains--and Black Rock (?) Tunnel will still be a choke point. Someone will have to pay for that, and it won't be NS.
SEPTA Trains won’t go through Black Rock tunnel. They’ll join the line at Abrams.
They'll use the tunnel if they go to Pottstown or Reading though. yes?
Forgive me, I was confusing it with Flat Rock Tunnel.

nova08
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by nova08 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:13 am

glennk419 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:12 pm
mcgrath618 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:47 pm
ExCon90 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
I may be getting dates mixed up here, but I think the last passenger service was operated by Conrail under contract to SEPTA (therefore prior to 1983), so the issue of trackage rights did not arise; by the time the line was conveyed to NS the passenger service was long gone.
In any case, I believe that for any sort of viable service to be operated, major track and signal improvements will be necessary to avoid conflicts with NS trains--and Black Rock (?) Tunnel will still be a choke point. Someone will have to pay for that, and it won't be NS.
SEPTA Trains won’t go through Black Rock tunnel. They’ll join the line at Abrams.
They'll use the tunnel if they go to Pottstown or Reading though. yes?
But aren't we just talking Phoenixville right now? The line is 2 tracks (and the 3rd Abrams lead track) with some space for additional track up to Phoenixville. The tunnel comes into play if they get Phoenixville to work and want to extend further.

pumpers
Posts: 2096
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by pumpers » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:17 am

Perhaps it was posted earlier in the thread, but what is the actual track mileage from Norristown to Pottstown (or from Bridgeport using the old Reading mileposts), and are there estimates for the actual proposed travel time? It already is at least 45 minutes Norristown to 30th St for a Septa expresss.
It would be interesting to look up the old Reading timetables...

nova08
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by nova08 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:40 am

pumpers wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:17 am
Perhaps it was posted earlier in the thread, but what is the actual track mileage from Norristown to Pottstown (or from Bridgeport using the old Reading mileposts), and are there estimates for the actual proposed travel time? It already is at least 45 minutes Norristown to 30th St for a Septa expresss.
It would be interesting to look up the old Reading timetables...
From the NS connection to Septa (CP Norris) to Phoenixville just short of Blackrock tunnel (CP Phoenix) it is 10 track miles.

From CP Norris to Stowe Yard in Pottstown is ~23 track miles.

rcthompson04
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by rcthompson04 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:50 pm

nova08 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:13 am
glennk419 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:12 pm
mcgrath618 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:47 pm
ExCon90 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
I may be getting dates mixed up here, but I think the last passenger service was operated by Conrail under contract to SEPTA (therefore prior to 1983), so the issue of trackage rights did not arise; by the time the line was conveyed to NS the passenger service was long gone.
In any case, I believe that for any sort of viable service to be operated, major track and signal improvements will be necessary to avoid conflicts with NS trains--and Black Rock (?) Tunnel will still be a choke point. Someone will have to pay for that, and it won't be NS.
SEPTA Trains won’t go through Black Rock tunnel. They’ll join the line at Abrams.
They'll use the tunnel if they go to Pottstown or Reading though. yes?
But aren't we just talking Phoenixville right now? The line is 2 tracks (and the 3rd Abrams lead track) with some space for additional track up to Phoenixville. The tunnel comes into play if they get Phoenixville to work and want to extend further.
Yes we have seen two types of responses from Norfolk Southern depending how far we are going... Phoenixville is not too hostile. Royersford is a hard no. The Black Rock Tunnel would seem to be a big reason for the difference in opinion.

ExCon90
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by ExCon90 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:34 pm

pumpers wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:17 am
Perhaps it was posted earlier in the thread, but what is the actual track mileage from Norristown to Pottstown (or from Bridgeport using the old Reading mileposts), and are there estimates for the actual proposed travel time? It already is at least 45 minutes Norristown to 30th St for a Septa expresss.
It would be interesting to look up the old Reading timetables...
The November 1968 Official Guide shows two morning trains taking 69 and 64 minutes from Pottstown to Reading Terminal and 48 and 44 minutes from Phoenixville, both originating at Reading Outer and the second offering Reclining Seat Coaches at no additional charge. Two evening trains took 67 and 66 minutes from Reading Terminal to Pottstown and 45 and 46 minutes to Phoenixville; the first one, out at 5.05 pm, was the King Coal (already an ironic name by 1968) for Pottsville, also with reclining seat coaches; the second one was destined to Reading. I don't know whether RDCs were used on that service in 1968, but at least the two trains with reclining seats would have been locomotive-hauled.

glennk419
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:44 pm
Location: Southeastern PA & Cape May County, NJ

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by glennk419 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:41 pm

ExCon90 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:34 pm
pumpers wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:17 am
Perhaps it was posted earlier in the thread, but what is the actual track mileage from Norristown to Pottstown (or from Bridgeport using the old Reading mileposts), and are there estimates for the actual proposed travel time? It already is at least 45 minutes Norristown to 30th St for a Septa expresss.
It would be interesting to look up the old Reading timetables...
The November 1968 Official Guide shows two morning trains taking 69 and 64 minutes from Pottstown to Reading Terminal and 48 and 44 minutes from Phoenixville, both originating at Reading Outer and the second offering Reclining Seat Coaches at no additional charge. Two evening trains took 67 and 66 minutes from Reading Terminal to Pottstown and 45 and 46 minutes to Phoenixville; the first one, out at 5.05 pm, was the King Coal (already an ironic name by 1968) for Pottsville, also with reclining seat coaches; the second one was destined to Reading. I don't know whether RDCs were used on that service in 1968, but at least the two trains with reclining seats would have been locomotive-hauled.
The reclining seat trains were five cars long and operated pull / push with FP-7's on each end. The cars had conduits along the roof lines so that the locomotives could be MU'd. I fondly remember those trains laying over at Reading Terminal, always on Track 1.
Glenn

RDGAndrew
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:38 pm
Location: Jenkintown PA

Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Post by RDGAndrew » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:42 pm

Haven’t been here in awhile. Extending to Phoenixville would definitely be good and could open the door to dual-mode extensions elsewhere. I looked at Phoenixville on Google Maps and it appears NS has moved the double-to-single track interlockings back a few hundred feet at both approaches to the Black Rock Tunnel. Any ideas why?
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