PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900)

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900)

Post by MNR's #1 Conductor » Sun May 08, 2011 9:59 am

At or about 9 AM (0900), a PATH train collided with the bumping block at Hoboken. WABC reports there were at least 70 people aboard, and there have been at least 30 injuries.

Link...... http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?secti ... id=8118721
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by waldwickrailfan » Sun May 08, 2011 11:28 am

Good thing I diddnt go today! Or is that bad? at least nobody was killed. I wonder what the cause of this was. I am keeping my thoughts and prayers with them and hope they get better soon.
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by OportRailfan » Sun May 08, 2011 4:41 pm

They are citing mechanical failure as the cause of the crash, which took out the bumping block on Track 2.
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Sun May 08, 2011 4:55 pm

33 Injuries so far, this is pretty bad.
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by OportRailfan » Sun May 08, 2011 5:42 pm

Roadgeek Adam wrote:33 Injuries so far, this is pretty bad.
Mostly scraps, bumps and bruises, and a few broken bones. No fatalities.
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by waldwickrailfan » Sun May 08, 2011 7:45 pm

Roadgeek Adam wrote:33 Injuries so far, this is pretty bad.
just got raised to 34 2 hours ago
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Slides » Sun May 08, 2011 9:09 pm


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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by OportRailfan » Sun May 08, 2011 10:02 pm

Service was restored around 7:30
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Penn Central » Mon May 09, 2011 11:50 am

NJ.com features a "reader submitted" photo of the crash. I guess the photo ban was suspended with the service

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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Allan » Mon May 09, 2011 1:52 pm

Penn Central wrote:NJ.com features a "reader submitted" photo of the crash. I guess the photo ban was suspended with the service

PATH has a photo ban all the time on everyone. You have to have a permit and be accompanied by a PATH representative.

That applies to individuals and the news media as well.

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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Allan » Mon May 09, 2011 2:02 pm

OportRailfan wrote:They are citing mechanical failure as the cause of the crash, which took out the bumping block on Track 2.

I rode PATH on a daily basis for 6 years (2002-2008) and I can tell you (without even being there) that there was nothing mechanical about that failure.

PATH engineers are notorious for bending the rules of safety as often as they can (and usually get away with it). This includes purposefully going past a timer red signal (knowing the train will recharge quickly) so they don't have to stop and wait for it to clear. Taking on more power than they should when entering a terminal station.

This is my take on the issue (based on observations during my 6 years as a passenger) - the engineer approached the station at proper speed and after the last station time signal cleared, took on some power and then put the brake handle in emergency with there expectation this his/her experience and timing would result in the train stooping at the proper place (just before the stopping block. In this instance their judgment was off resulting in the crash.

This is not the first time that this has happened at Hoboken (it has happened at 33rd St a few times as well). Hoboken and 33rd St are the only 2 dead end station on PATH.

PATH will call it mechanical failure. My feeling is human failure. Believe what you will.

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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Sirsonic » Mon May 09, 2011 6:48 pm

Allan wrote:PATH will call it mechanical failure. My feeling is human failure. Believe what you will.
My belief is that someone who has no clue what their talking about, by their own admission, is intentionally slandering an engineer based on no evidence other than their own observations from an earlier time without any understanding of what was actually happening when those observations were made. Your obviously a troll and I would encourage other users to ignore your inflammatory post.
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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by Allan » Mon May 09, 2011 7:12 pm

Sirsonic wrote:
Allan wrote:PATH will call it mechanical failure. My feeling is human failure. Believe what you will.
My belief is that someone who has no clue what their talking about, by their own admission, is intentionally slandering an engineer based on no evidence other than their own observations from an earlier time without any understanding of what was actually happening when those observations were made. Your obviously a troll and I would encourage other users to ignore your inflammatory post.

Being a railfan for quite a number of years, I can assure you I understand a lot more about what is going on (on PATH and the NYC Subway) than you think.

There have been 2 or 3 other crashes like this (I think this one caused the most damage) on the same track in Hoboken over the past few years. I can't buy the mechanical failure excuse. Crashing into an end block/bumper generally means the person at the controls didn't do something properly.

I just heard (on the news) that the engineer was 26 years old and inexperienced. He could not be that inexperienced if they are letting him operate trains solo.

What I stated was my opinion. You are under no obligation have to agree with it (or call someone a troll).

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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by gmbfly98 » Mon May 09, 2011 9:13 pm

Allan wrote:
Sirsonic wrote:
Allan wrote:PATH will call it mechanical failure. My feeling is human failure. Believe what you will.
My belief is that someone who has no clue what their talking about, by their own admission, is intentionally slandering an engineer based on no evidence other than their own observations from an earlier time without any understanding of what was actually happening when those observations were made. Your obviously a troll and I would encourage other users to ignore your inflammatory post.
Being a railfan for quite a number of years, I can assure you I understand a lot more about what is going on (on PATH and the NYC Subway) than you think.
I'm a railfan, but I'm also an aviation fan and pilot. One thing I've learned is that even someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to aviation can't make an informed guess as to what caused a particular aviation accident without having all the facts, and this is with a far greater background than 99% of all serious aviation fans. One of my hobbies is studying accident investigations, and almost without exception, all accidents have a chain of events leading up to the accident in that no single event caused the accident.

I imagine this unfortunate event is no different than any of the other number accident investigations I've studied. It may very well involve some operator error, but given that PATH has to follow FRA regulations (from what I understand), and knowing about the various safety systems that exist on the railroad, I doubt the engineer was doing anything that he felt would put the train and passengers in danger. Least of all the engineer himself, who, like an airline pilot, is the "first to arrive at the accident scene".

Let's see if we can wait for the accident investigation facts to arrive before making assumptions or passing judgement.

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Re: PATH Train collides with a bumping block @ Hoboken (0900

Post by OportRailfan » Mon May 09, 2011 10:00 pm

Allan wrote:
OportRailfan wrote:They are citing mechanical failure as the cause of the crash, which took out the bumping block on Track 2.
...PATH engineers are notorious for bending the rules of safety as often as they can...This includes purposefully going past a timer red signal (knowing the train will recharge quickly) so they don't have to stop and wait for it to clear. Taking on more power than they should when entering a terminal station...
Well they kinda don't have speedometer in the older consists, so yeah - speed is guesstimated.

I continue to ride PATH, and know that halfway down the Hoboken platforms are timered signals. They only change once you're on top of them and you do need to pull for power if you're practically stopped on top of them and they finally clear. I wouldn't rule out mechanical failure so soon either, as it was an older model set with a PA4 cab car. Operator error is also plausible, but none of us have all the facts in front of us to make a legitimate judgement.

Unless you work for PATH, you can only hypothesize the sequence of events that happened. Leave it to the NTSB/FRA for the final ruling.
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