New Dinky to Nassau Street

[25Hz]

Well, a forum is for just that, discussion! And the 25hz system powered by Niagara Falls & some other plants, I believe has been changed over to 60Hz. There was a significant 25hz power grid in southern Ontario, partly due to heavy industry located along the south shore of Lake Ontario. The 25hz distribution substation near the industrial sectors in Hamilton has been totally replaced by a 60hz instalment which I actually saw myself back in 2012.

As far as the shuttle goes... Light rail cannot just be plopped down in place of a real railroad route. It needs to be completely reliable, predictable, and have redundant backup such as a bus so people do not miss their connections at the NEC station. Not only that, but it's a high level platform at both ends currently... How do you propose handling that? Remember, your answer needs to be easy to use and ADA compliment. What will you put as a vehicle that makes curbside stops and is high level compatible?

And as I'm looking at it, there isn't much of a route that you can make without using some pretty damn awkward moves through parking lots and driveways...

[Patrick Boylan]

As far as the shuttle goes... Light rail ... needs to be completely reliable, predictable, and have redundant backup such as a bus so people do not miss their connections at the NEC station

Each of these points applies to the existing setup. Why should changing the rail operation mean they'd lose the bus backup that I assume the existing setup has? Or is there currently no bus backup? The one time I rode, a summer Saturday in the late 1980's, there was no bus, just a cab driver hollering "the Dinky ain't running"

[merrick1]

Well, a forum is for just that, discussion! And the 25hz system powered by Niagara Falls & some other plants, I believe has been changed over to 60Hz. There was a significant 25hz power grid in southern Ontario, partly due to heavy industry located along the south shore of Lake Ontario. The 25hz distribution substation near the industrial sectors in Hamilton has been totally replaced by a 60hz instalment which I actually saw myself back in 2012.

Southern Ontario and the Buffalo, New York area had a 25 Hz power grid. Phase out of 25 Hz power started in the 1930s. Residential customers in Ontario were converted to 60 Hz in the 1950's. 25 Hz service in Buffalo ended in 2006 when the distribution system was damaged by a snow storm and the few remaining customers were not willing to pay for repairs. Many of the customers were office buildings in downtown Buffalo with 25 Hz elevators. In Ontario the 25 Hz system continued in operation until 2009 to power industrial customers' arc furnaces.

[Ken W2KB]

As far as the shuttle goes... Light rail ... needs to be completely reliable, predictable, and have redundant backup such as a bus so people do not miss their connections at the NEC station

Each of these points applies to the existing setup. Why should changing the rail operation mean they'd lose the bus backup that I assume the existing setup has? Or is there currently no bus backup? The one time I rode, a summer Saturday in the late 1980's, there was no bus, just a cab driver hollering "the Dinky ain't running"

Given the huge NJT bus fleet, NJT will send buses when rail service is interrupted where bus capability can produce a reasonable result. I've experienced that two or three times on the RVL over the past 15 years.

[Patrick Boylan]

Like I said Herzie, why do you mention that LRV needs a bus backup differently from the current heavy rail setup? Are you implying that the heavy rail does not need a bus backup?

[Rodney Fisk]

The LRV currently favored to replace the Dinky is simple enough to be maintained locally, and a spare half-unit will be waiting in the maintenance depot. In addition, the university's Tiger Transit currently operates a bus to the Junction in redundant, parallel service to NJ Transit's EMU service, previously protected by an NJ Transit bus. Contingent backup service is absolutely no problem whatsoever, period.

As for platform level, why not just go with the simplest solution? The platform at the Junction will be replaced with a low-level platform. All new stations or stops will be low level, fully compatible with the low-floor LRV.

The proposed extended route to Nassau Street will go from the new station around the new Arts Campus just inside the existing roadway on a dedicated ROW and on up University Place in a dedicated lane, now parking, which will be moved to the opposite side of the street when the street becomes one-way.

[ExCon90]

From a cost standpoint, what would be the respective merits of lowering the platform vs. raising the dinky track to the present platform level? Presumably there would be no point in maintaining the connection with the Corridor, and it would save passengers a few steps.

[Rodney Fisk]

That was the original concept until it was determined that the raised track would require a pedestrian tunnel to the parking lot. Removal of the high-level platform at the Junction merely requires the installation of a set of steps and some guard rails; all the required ADA ramps are already in place from track level to NEC platform level.

[Rodney Fisk]

Of course, a primary consideration remains the need for a new Dinky to have easy access to its maintenance facility, beyond the Princeton Junction station at the over-night storage track. That would be difficult with a track elevated to the level of the current platform.

[Dcell]

So is this pipe dream now dead and buried for another decade or so?

[25Hz]

So is this pipe dream now dead and buried for another decade or so?

Hopefully next to jimmy hoffa.

[Rodney Fisk]

Princeton's Alexander Street/University Place task force is awaiting the report of the consultant URS recommending that the Dinky be converted to light rail and extended to Nassau Street (Princeton's main street) on a dedicated right-of-way. The principal remaining question is whether to use traditional, proven rolling stock or to go with the most innovative technology: an LRV as fast as the current Dinky yet simple enough to be maintained locally at a (mere) million-dollar facility to be constructed at Princeton Junction. With this LRV the Princeton Branch can be operated without subsidy, a singular accomplishment. Stay tuned.

[pumpers]

Princeton university's name is mud right now in the town of Princeton for moving the Dinky station away from downtown. If all of this in the end leads to a stop next to downtown Nassau St, it will be viewed as the biggest positive step in Princeton infrastructure in 100 (?) years, and would more than repair any university-town relationship issues. So with such a large positive possible outcome, if the right big players get behind it, I would think this could absolutely happen. JS
PS. Around 20(?) years ago when the Dinky finances were in bad shape, I think the university bailed it out in some way. Does Princeton University actually own the ROW from Princeton Junction to Princeton now, and NJT operates at the pleasure of the university, legally? (I can't imagine that is the case). Or does Princeton just contribute an operating subsidy, or did it just buy the old station area? I forget what the deal was. Someone here must know...

[25Hz]

I really wish this ill conceived fodder would fall into a shallow grave and die.

[dowlingm]

Is there a possibility of extending a light rail option east of PJct to the Forrestal campus? Seems a shame to make it a dead end line at the mainline halt considering the urbanization around PJct but at the same time I suspect there is little appetite to tunnel under the NEC to serve West Windsor.