Railroad Forums 

  • Sandusky OH to Hackettstown NJ

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #754087  by dave_van
 
I am trying to figure out a round trip on Amtrak and NJT from Sandusky OH to Hackettstown NJ. Getting from Sandusky to NYC is no problem but from NYC to Hackettstown is a problem. Trying to read a NJT timetable the only things I get from it is a headache and confused. I am thinking I will have to change trains on NJT somewhere but I don't know where. Can anyone help?
thanx
 #754099  by sullivan1985
 
If you where to leave Sandusky on January 3rd, this would be your setup.

AMTK #30 Capitol Limited
  • Depart: Sandusky, OH (SKY) @ 12:40A
    Arrive: Washington DC (WAS) @ 1:10P
Transfer at Washington DC

AMTK #132 Northeast Regional
  • Depart: Washington DC @ 3:25P
    Arrive: New York Penn Station (NYP) @ 6:47P
Transfer at New York Penn Station

NJT #6671 Midtown Direct
  • Depart: New York Penn Station @ 8:51P
    Arrive: Dover, NJ @ 10:14P
Transfer at Dover, NJ

NJT #1087
  • Depart: Dover, NJ @ 10:22P
    Arrive: Hackettstown, NJ @ 11:00P
Amtrak: $181.00
NJ Transit: $11.75
Total: $192.75

Total travel time: 22h 20m (should all go according to schedule)

There are other trains you can take from Sandusky, but this seems to be the best way to get out there. If you take a later train from Sandusky you'll end up in New York after service hours for NJT and you'll be stranded in New York until the morning trains.
 #754313  by Port Jervis
 
dave_van wrote:I am trying to figure out a round trip on Amtrak and NJT from Sandusky OH to Hackettstown NJ. Getting from Sandusky to NYC is no problem but from NYC to Hackettstown is a problem. Trying to read a NJT timetable the only things I get from it is a headache and confused. I am thinking I will have to change trains on NJT somewhere but I don't know where. Can anyone help?
thanx
Hackettstown gets scant, weekday only service from NJT. Plan your trip carefully, since Amtrak's on time record is spotty, and if you miss a connection, there might not be another one until the next day.

I still don't understand why trains terminate at Mount Olive, instead of running thru to Hackettstown. Mount Olive is dead most of the time, if you're gonna turn trains at a point along the way, might as well do it at Netcong.
 #754441  by firthorfifth06
 
I believe it has been noted on other threads that NS uses the line from Washington NJ, thereby making full service to Hackettstown (all 800 and 1000 series trains) impossible unless a second track is built to accommodate passenger trains only.
 #754456  by njtmnrrbuff
 
I have a feeling it's something that involves signaling that prevents a lot of the trains that serve Mt. Olive to continue onto Hackettstown. Yes, the service to Hackettstown is very dismal.

If you are catching NJT out of Penn Station and heading to Hackettstown, you HAVE to change from an electric train to a diesel one, either at NWK Broad, MSU, or Dover.
 #754457  by ns3010
 
firthorfifth06 wrote:I believe it has been noted on other threads that NS uses the line from Washington NJ, thereby making full service to Hackettstown (all 800 and 1000 series trains) impossible unless a second track is built to accommodate passenger trains only.
Partially true, but H-02 only runs to Washington on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
If H-02 were to run ahead of train A, it would have left NJT territory and entered the Washington Secondary before Train A reaches Htown. While H-02 makes its way from H-town to Washington and back, NJT trains B, C, and D make their runs to Htown. Just as H-02 approaches Htown on its way east, train E is on its way west, say in MO, almost to Htown. So H-02 just waits somewhere west of COOK. As train E changes ends and runs back east to Hoboken, H-02 can follow it out, and be back to double trackage before train F reaches Lk Hopatcong.

1) For full (or at least more) service to Hackettstown, H-02 is out of the way 99% of the time.
2) Adding a second track is impossible, because the track runs through many cuts, and behind tons of backyards.
 #754476  by njmidland
 
Sadly, the main reason service to Hackettstown is limited is because there just isn't enough demand. It is a long ride to just about anywhere. I do use it on occasion, but I can drive to Netcong and still not hit a lot of traffic, still have free parking and have more options for train frequencies.

When Andover opens I suspect it will cut Hackettstown ridership in half.
 #754486  by nick11a
 
ns3010 wrote:
firthorfifth06 wrote:I believe it has been noted on other threads that NS uses the line from Washington NJ, thereby making full service to Hackettstown (all 800 and 1000 series trains) impossible unless a second track is built to accommodate passenger trains only.
Partially true, but H-02 only runs to Washington on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
If H-02 were to run ahead of train A, it would have left NJT territory and entered the Washington Secondary before Train A reaches Htown. While H-02 makes its way from H-town to Washington and back, NJT trains B, C, and D make their runs to Htown. Just as H-02 approaches Htown on its way east, train E is on its way west, say in MO, almost to Htown. So H-02 just waits somewhere west of COOK. As train E changes ends and runs back east to Hoboken, H-02 can follow it out, and be back to double trackage before train F reaches Lk Hopatcong.

1) For full (or at least more) service to Hackettstown, H-02 is out of the way 99% of the time.
2) Adding a second track is impossible, because the track runs through many cuts, and behind tons of backyards.
I wouldn't call it impossible. Expensive, yes. Implausible in spots, yes. But, there are quite a few spots conducive to having two tracks.

Also, NS H02 waits usually about 50 yards from the Crossing in Hackettstown when waiting for a train to turn east. While waiting, many times NJT an NS crews patronize the local Quick Chek.

Schedule holes are built in for the H02 to get back and forth within a reasonable amount of time.

Another thing NJT would have to do is shorten the length of the blocks west of Lake Hopatcong. Bear in mind, with not many trains out there, they are pretty long blacks, meaning, if you're on the tails of a train, you're operating on approach or stop and proceeds (or a stop at Olive) for a fair bit as you shadow the train west to Hackettstown. The trip is long enough already.

Quite simply, the shorter the blocks, the more trains you can have operating on that track at higher speeds.
 #754612  by ns3010
 
This is true. But how much time do they need between LH to Hackettstown? Unless I'm forgetting something, all there is between there is M&M Mars.

As for the double track issue, I was talking about for the entire length. Through Netcong and Hackettstown are impossible, although there are a few places west of Mount Olive that would be great for a passing siding.

And as you said, the long blocks. Again, unless I'm forgetting places (I rarely ride to Hackettstown, and actually on NJT at all...), the blocks are between MORRIS JCT. and ROXBURY, ROXBURY and Love Lane (I don't think it has a name?), Love Lane and OLIVE, and OLIVE and COOK. So on that entire section of double track, that's what, 4 blocks? Like you said, not a lot...
 #754628  by blockline4180
 
ns3010 wrote:This is true. But how much time do they need between LH to Hackettstown? Unless I'm forgetting something, all there is between there is M&M Mars.

...

I'm pretty sure NS no longer serves M&M Mars.. I hsven't seen the green boxcars in a long time.
 #754731  by NYS&W142Fan
 
blockline4180 wrote:
ns3010 wrote:This is true. But how much time do they need between LH to Hackettstown? Unless I'm forgetting something, all there is between there is M&M Mars.

...

I'm pretty sure NS no longer serves M&M Mars.. I hsven't seen the green boxcars in a long time.
The last train in M&M/Mars broke a rail near the top of the siding some time ago. It is my understanding there are no current plans to fix it any time soon. I think they still get the material they need by having it shipped to NYGK Logistics near Washington then trucked to the plant from there. They also get their Sugar delivered to Sparta then trucked from there. The transportation people at M&M/Mars appear to be anti-rail since they do not appear to want to spend any money to support Rail into their facility.

As far as double track, at one time the whole line from LH to Washington was double tracked until the Cutoff was built. It was then reduced to single track. Most if not all the RofW is wide enough to allow for double track, but why would they want to do that with a line that has limited Freight Service and limited commuter service.
 #754768  by nick11a
 
I don't have my info handy, but there are more blocks than the ones you mentioned NS3010. There are quite a few automatics here and there, but, they are just spaced a bit farther apart.