MOM Rail Service

[haamster]

It's all about money and fear.

The money of the people who have expensive homes in South Brunswick/Monmouth Jct. along a handful of streets near the tracks, worried about their property values going down with "hundreds of trains running day and night."

It's about the fear and lies invented by local politicians ("hundreds of daily schoolbus crossings of active tracks") when the number of buses and trips that actually would cross the tracks daily when carrying children numbers only in the teens.

And the politicians even created a "civil war" by pitting northern Middlesex (North Brunswick, New Brunswick, Rutgers, J&J) against "poor elderly people in their retirement homes" in Monroe and people "who didn't know when they bought their expensive homes" in South Brunswick and Monmouth Jct. that those tracks in their backyards were "active."

The only people with a legitimate beef came from the folks in Jamesburg, where the route would run right through the middle of the town. And even that argument was full of holes.

Amazingly, people bought the argument that MOM would serve "only" Monmouth, Ocean and "Northern" Middlesex.

But somehow, our Freeholders were comfortable with okaying paving contracts for the widening of Rt. 1 for BRT lanes in that same area. Maybe that was before Middlesex got branded with having among the worst air quality of all counties in the state.

I'll agree with you about the property value argument, but buses crossing the tracks numbering in the teens?

I'm not sure how valid an argument regarding the number of buses crossing tracks is, but regardless your numbers are way off. The number of occupied buses crossing those tracks is in the neighborhood of 60 to 80 per day in Monroe Township alone. Jamesburg only uses buses to Monroe Twp High School and special needs, but that only amplifies the argument since all the kids are walkers and the RR splits the town.

I don't know how the "poor elderly people in their retirement homes" could be used in an argument either way since no retirement communities are near the tracks in question. There is a gated community near Forsgate Country Club that is near the tracks, but it is not age-restricted.

[fishmech]

I'll agree with you about the property value argument, but buses crossing the tracks numbering in the teens?

I'm not sure how valid an argument regarding the number of buses crossing tracks is, but regardless your numbers are way off. The number of occupied buses crossing those tracks is in the neighborhood of 60 to 80 per day in Monroe Township alone. Jamesburg only uses buses to Monroe Twp High School and special needs, but that only amplifies the argument since all the kids are walkers and the RR splits the town.

I don't know how the "poor elderly people in their retirement homes" could be used in an argument either way since no retirement communities are near the tracks in question. There is a gated community near Forsgate Country Club that is near the tracks, but it is not age-restricted.

Unless MOM is going to be running with River LINE frequency (15 minutes between trains in each direction at peak, 30 minutes off peak) I don't see the problem. Kids walk to school just fine in the River LINE towns, and that's with 45 trains a day in each direction between 6 am and 10 pm. And kids walked to school just fine in the same River LINE towns back in the 40s/50s when the PRR ran commuter rail service with full length trains through the same towns on the same tracks.

Edit:
I mean really, we can handle 5 trains per our on average throughout service hours, which are 102.5 feet or 205 feet long depending on the specific train. I would think Jamesburg can handle at least perhaps 2 trains per hour which are about double the length of a double-vehicle River LINE train - 4 Comets or Multilevels and an engine.

[Roadgeek Adam]

As a resident of Middlesex County, and knowing our freeholders well enough, we won't get very far here. We need more trains, buses and a Rutgers-Highland Park station (would also serve Piscataway) along the Northeast Corridor, but that ain't going to happen. I'd love a lot of things to come to my county, not going to happen in the foreseeable future

[fishmech]

As a resident of Middlesex County, and knowing our freeholders well enough, we won't get very far here. We need more trains, buses and a Rutgers-Highland Park station (would also serve Piscataway) along the Northeast Corridor, but that ain't going to happen. I'd love a lot of things to come to my county, not going to happen in the foreseeable future

I used to go to Rutgers, don't tell me the free campus buses don't already link the old Livingston and Busch campuses to the New Brunswick station!

But seriously, there's only 2.2 miles between the east end of the New Brunswick platforms and the west end of the Edison platforms. All of the "full service" NEC stations are about 2 miles apart or more, the only stations closer than that are Jersey Avenue and North Elizabeth, both of which only see service from a few rush hour trains, and both of which are about the same distance from the nearest station as a Highland Park station would have to be.

[finsuburbia]

As a resident of Middlesex County, and knowing our freeholders well enough, we won't get very far here. We need more trains, buses and a Rutgers-Highland Park station (would also serve Piscataway) along the Northeast Corridor, but that ain't going to happen. I'd love a lot of things to come to my county, not going to happen in the foreseeable future

I used to go to Rutgers, don't tell me the free campus buses don't already link the old Livingston and Busch campuses to the New Brunswick station!

But seriously, there's only 2.2 miles between the east end of the New Brunswick platforms and the west end of the Edison platforms. All of the "full service" NEC stations are about 2 miles apart or more, the only stations closer than that are Jersey Avenue and North Elizabeth, both of which only see service from a few rush hour trains, and both of which are about the same distance from the nearest station as a Highland Park station would have to be.

New Brunswick station is essentially a "Rutgers" stop as it abuts the College Avenue Campus.

The local service along the corridor would be better served by the proposed Greater New Brunswick BRT which, in one of the proposed corridors, would serve HP and provide feeder service to the NEC station(s).

[Roadgeek Adam]

As a resident of Middlesex County, and knowing our freeholders well enough, we won't get very far here. We need more trains, buses and a Rutgers-Highland Park station (would also serve Piscataway) along the Northeast Corridor, but that ain't going to happen. I'd love a lot of things to come to my county, not going to happen in the foreseeable future

I used to go to Rutgers, don't tell me the free campus buses don't already link the old Livingston and Busch campuses to the New Brunswick station!

But seriously, there's only 2.2 miles between the east end of the New Brunswick platforms and the west end of the Edison platforms. All of the "full service" NEC stations are about 2 miles apart or more, the only stations closer than that are Jersey Avenue and North Elizabeth, both of which only see service from a few rush hour trains, and both of which are about the same distance from the nearest station as a Highland Park station would have to be.

New Brunswick station is essentially a "Rutgers" stop as it abuts the College Avenue Campus.

The local service along the corridor would be better served by the proposed Greater New Brunswick BRT which, in one of the proposed corridors, would serve HP and provide feeder service to the NEC station(s).

The other thing is, its Rutgers football season. Roads are backed up, we need more ways outside bus and car to get around in this area.

[JLo]

The other thing is, its Rutgers football season. Roads are backed up, we need more ways outside bus and car to get around in this area.

Right, we need a large investment in mass transit for 4 hours, 6 Saturdays a year.

[fishmech]

I remember the Rutgers paper publishing an article in 2006 or so about a monorail that would run a loop of College Ave/Old Queens, Livingston, Busch, and the stadiums at Busch, and a separate loop that would handle Cook and Douglass and the various off campus facilities in New Brunswick. Perhaps that can be built.

[WaitinginSJ]

I remember the Rutgers paper publishing an article in 2006 or so about a monorail that would run a loop of College Ave/Old Queens, Livingston, Busch, and the stadiums at Busch, and a separate loop that would handle Cook and Douglass and the various off campus facilities in New Brunswick. Perhaps that can be built.

I remember my friends from Rutgers talking about that. To say the least it would be interesting, after that, I think we all will begin to differ.

[finsuburbia]

New Brunswick station is essentially a "Rutgers" stop as it abuts the College Avenue Campus.

The local service along the corridor would be better served by the proposed Greater New Brunswick BRT which, in one of the proposed corridors, would serve HP and provide feeder service to the NEC station(s).

The other thing is, its Rutgers football season. Roads are backed up, we need more ways outside bus and car to get around in this area.

The NEC in Highland Park is about 1.5 miles from Rutgers stadium as the crow flies. Buses are still required to get people to/from the stadium. Additionally, the road it most closely parallels, NJ27, is not the major recipient of game day traffic.

The "monorail" idea was part of a redesign competition for the college avenue campus. It was submitted by one of the losing teams and they called it a "mini metro." It was a "vision plan" and nothing more.

While a local rail-based system would be cool, its not really feasible financially and has many operational issues (there's very little in the way of abandoned rail ROW in the area so an LRT would most likely have to do street running, probably in mixed traffic. Additionally, the Busch and Cook/Douglass campuses are so sprawling that they would probably require a bus circulator anyhow.)

[Eric Mezzo]

As a resident of Middlesex County, and knowing our freeholders well enough, we won't get very far here. We need more trains, buses and a Rutgers-Highland Park station (would also serve Piscataway) along the Northeast Corridor, but that ain't going to happen. I'd love a lot of things to come to my county, not going to happen in the foreseeable future

My uncle was on the transportation board for Union County for years and he always told me that if a rail line needs to go somewhere they will do it regardless of what people say, similar to eminent domain. If it needs to serve a purpose, it is installed. period. The fact that NJ doesn't have the money or balls, frankly, to do it is ridiculous. Why do we elect these people?

[Jtgshu]

Indeed, eminent domain for a railroad route is a LEGITIMATE use of Eminent Domain.

However, its very politically risky to use any kind of Eminent Domain in NJ in particular (and rightly so), because of the political backlash of doing so. However, what the problem is with MOM and its routes isn't so much a building or property in the way, but rather the thoughts and fears, no matter how rediculous they may be, of a few towns in Middlesex County (and other places as well, with other routes - Red Bank and Shrewsbury don't want the Red Bank route, and Marlboro and Freehold Township are dead set against a Matawan route).

Its too bad eminent domain can't be used on people's minds. However, what I think should be offered should be a buyout of unhappy folks by NJT or the state, those folks who are dead set against the line, and give them actual market value of their homes.

Because as we all know, the property values surrounding the trainstations and those towns with transit access WILL skyrocket, and NJT or the State DOT could probably make a tidy profit on these homes when they would be resold, probably very quickly to boot.

Anyway, these folks who bought along the ALREADY EXISTING AND IN SERVICE railroad tracks already got their "discount" for the decreased property value when they bought their house. they seem to have forgotten that little fact. They seem to think that their home is worth the same as an identical home that is NOT next to a railroad track.....which it isn't.

This wouldn't apply to those who bought their homes along the Freehold Branch, which has been OOS and abandoned for 30 plus years. yes, they bought next to a ROW, but it is a little bit of a slightly different sitaution with the Freehold Branch, no longer connected to live rail (and now rail removed and converted to a trail).

[E-44]

The underused Edison rail station is a much better alternative for handling football fans on gamedays. A shuttle bus from Edison can cut right through Livingston and Busch campuses WITHOUT crossing the river, which is the bottleneck. There could be a much higher frequency of runs (and shorter turns) between the stadium and Edison. They would also be able to let fans off above the stadium as opposed to the shuttles that now terminate in Johnson Park. I've been after the athletic department about this for a couple of years.

There's plenty of room on the Piscataway side for LRT, running away from the Edison station on the old Kilmer trackage. As for New Brunswick, the original Transit Village plan (circa 1977) called for the elimination of vehicle traffic on George St. between New St. and Somerset St. with LRT running down George from Cook/Douglass and continuing to a river crossing to Piscataway either on George or in a protected median on College Ave.

As far as Monroe goes, part of the disinformation campaign was aimed at the folks in Rossmoor who were led to believe that trains would be using the old C&A ROW.

I misspoke about the numbers of school bus crossings - meant to say it was in double digits, not teens. But the numbers being bandied about in the press were "in the hundreds."

And I am violently opposed to BRT with conventionally fueled buses or roadway expansion in the county as long as our air quality is so substandard.

Edit: Ah, here's the quote from the Monroe councilman I had in mind: "...Nalitt said Monroe has four grade crossings with about 180 buses crossing the tracks daily and having this new line would pose an increased safety risk for the buses." To my knowledge, NJT has never had a schoolbus/train accident since it began operations.

[jp1822]

Indeed, eminent domain for a railroad route is a LEGITIMATE use of Eminent Domain.

However, its very politically risky to use any kind of Eminent Domain in NJ in particular (and rightly so), because of the political backlash of doing so. However, what the problem is with MOM and its routes isn't so much a building or property in the way, but rather the thoughts and fears, no matter how rediculous they may be, of a few towns in Middlesex County (and other places as well, with other routes - Red Bank and Shrewsbury don't want the Red Bank route, and Marlboro and Freehold Township are dead set against a Matawan route).

Its too bad eminent domain can't be used on people's minds. However, what I think should be offered should be a buyout of unhappy folks by NJT or the state, those folks who are dead set against the line, and give them actual market value of their homes.

Because as we all know, the property values surrounding the trainstations and those towns with transit access WILL skyrocket, and NJT or the State DOT could probably make a tidy profit on these homes when they would be resold, probably very quickly to boot.

Anyway, these folks who bought along the ALREADY EXISTING AND IN SERVICE railroad tracks already got their "discount" for the decreased property value when they bought their house. they seem to have forgotten that little fact. They seem to think that their home is worth the same as an identical home that is NOT next to a railroad track.....which it isn't.

This wouldn't apply to those who bought their homes along the Freehold Branch, which has been OOS and abandoned for 30 plus years. yes, they bought next to a ROW, but it is a little bit of a slightly different sitaution with the Freehold Branch, no longer connected to live rail (and now rail removed and converted to a trail).

Many people even forget that the old Freehold and Jamesburg Agricultural RR (F&J) was largely put in place with people “giving land” to the railroad so they could have passenger and freight service to their region. Various deals were struck with landowners and the F&J shareholders as they built “sections” of the line (i.e. a 99 lease for the ROW for a $1.00, or outright gift). This RR, as most know ran from Sea Girt/Manasquan to Jamesburg via Allaire, Farmingdale, Freehold, Englishtown etc. The MOM route would use the portion of track from the F&J from Farmingdale to Jamesburg. I am a proponent of passenger rail and would like to see the MOM route come to be, and if that doesn’t work, then the Red Bank route I suppose would be a second choice, despite the fact it would miss Freehold. Should I say “regrettably” my family gave land for a ROW so the F&J through our farm could be built, only for it now to lay largely idle? We received no compensation, only gratitude that the family got access to a “railroad.” I have no sympathy for those who built along a railroad ROW, knowing NJT owned the ROW and “could” reinstate service. The State of NJ bought up a great deal of ROW from the former Central RR of NJ in anticipation of establishing commuter rail in the future. Was such “state money” spent worthlessly? I’d hope not, but that’s what it is looking like.

[baju]

I hate to sound like a pessimist but I feel I am a realist. The age of rail expansion in nj is not in the cards. Industry that uses rail is leaving and will never return..for reasons we all know. The politicians whether republican or demeocrat are in the developers pockets. We all know to follow the trail of the almighty dollar and kickbacks. If I were to make a bet and I would win. The next construction money will all go to adding extra lanes to rt 9, extra lanes to rt 80, and improving the parkway, atlantic city expressway etc etc etc......Politicians hear our screams but greed and their political cronies form an elete club.
The crap about the nimbys holding up the mom line is pure foolishness...government can do what it wants to. We are beginning to live in a society similar to the plite of Britan. Minimum wage jobs no tax base and we all know that nj
is all going to be a two class society. Those who will get laid off during the next administration will leave further lowering the tax base. The only positive thing I can barely see hapenning is some expansion of light rail and after the tunnels are built more trains on the now busy passenger lines. As far as mom and the cape may rr and the resurection of the phoebe snow forget it. Heavy rail is dead in nj. Light rail to glassboro mabe. I hope im wrong in my assumptions and if i am, please cut me up im open for positive input based on realistic business policys. I really would like to have some hope.