More crossovers at County interlocking?

[timz]

I see they've installed four movable-frog crossovers (probably still 45 mph) at County, on the PRR main a mile and a half west of New Brunswick. They took out the old left-hand crossover between tracks 3 and 4, which gave them enough room to put in a ladder of right-hand x-overs, 4 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, and a replacement left-hand from 3 to 4 at the east end of the interlocking. So at the moment there are two RH ladders across the four-track main, one old and one new.

That's temporary? They'll eventually take out all the old ones? Is Midway next? And Lincoln?

(Doesn't County still have a couple of yellow triangles? Not for long, I guess.)

[nick11a]

I see they've installed four movable-frog crossovers (probably still 45 mph) at County, on the PRR main a mile and a half west of New Brunswick. They took out the old left-hand crossover between tracks 3 and 4, which gave them enough room to put in a ladder of right-hand x-overs, 4 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, and a replacement left-hand from 3 to 4 at the east end of the interlocking. So at the moment there are two RH ladders across the four-track main, one old and one new

So that's what they've been doing, huh? They've been doing work down at County on and off for quite a while.

[bronxtale]

The 12, 23 and 32 switch will also be replaced in 2006. Once new wire is run overhead the new switches will be put in service and the old switches retired, some during the new installs. All high speed interlockings on the corridor are scheduled to receive new concrete swithces in the coming years. Bergen was rebuilt last July.

[timz]

By "high speed interlockings" you mean interlockings where the straight-route speed is fairly high-- right? You're not referring to the speed thru the x-overs?

Speaking of Bergen-- I wonder why they moved the westward signals a few hundred feet east. The new x-overs still fit behind the old signal bridge, don't they?

[Jersey_Mike]

I noticed this myself and took some pictures last time I took Amtrak through there, but they are still on my camera. Given the placements of the crossovers I was wondering if they were going to increase capacity by adding some additional crossovers.

What I am really worried about is that COUNTY is the last NEC interlocking with LIMITED speed triangles instead of a flasher. While the new turnouts are clearly LIMITED speed (45mph) will they use this as an excuse to install a flashing relay and remove the triangles?

[PRRTechFan]

I see they've installed four movable-frog crossovers (probably still 45 mph) at County...

...Of power and signaling I have a good understanding; but trackwork, not so good... So what exactly are "moveable-frog crossovers"?

By "high speed interlockings" you mean interlockings where the straight-route speed is fairly high-- right? You're not referring to the speed thru the x-overs?

"High speed interlocking" refers to the speed through switches on a diverging route. On a straight-through route with track not otherwise requiring speed restrictions due to track geometry or other civil constraints, the speed straight through the interlocking is most often identical to the maximum speed of the track(s) approaching the interlocking, assuming clear blocks, of course.

The existence of an interlocking plant does not automatically trigger a universal speed restriction within the interlocking on straight through routes. And if the route is anything other than maximum authorized speed, whether due to the speed through diverging switches or block occupancy; the home and distant signals will display aspects more restrictive than "clear" sufficiently in advance of the interlocking to allow the engineer time to reduce to the appropriate speed.

I noticed this myself and took some pictures last time I took Amtrak through there, but they are still on my camera.

Would you please post them when they are available? Does anyone have a sketch or track chart that shows what is going on?

What I am really worried about is that COUNTY is the last NEC interlocking with LIMITED speed triangles instead of a flasher. While the new turnouts are clearly LIMITED speed (45mph) will they use this as an excuse to install a flashing relay and remove the triangles?

Probably. Depends on whether they change any of the signal circuitry instead of just relocating the existing track circuits to suit the revised track arrangement. Somewhere I have photographs of the home signals at Nassau before they ripped out the switches; and probably well before flashing an "approach medium" aspect upgraded it to "approach limited"; those signals had the yellow triangles. Too bad the triangles are almost history.

[TAMR213]

Will they fixing the home signals and cab signals at all? Oftain times while listening to my scanner, you'll hear trains tell CETC-8 that thier cabs dropped to ristricting then came back up, or they would have to report west of I belive its signal 347.

[timz]

"High speed interlocking" refers to the speed through switches on a diverging route.

Usually, but I'm guessing that wasn't what Bronxtale meant.

Are you really not familiar with movable frogs?

[Jtgshu]

Auto 347 has had troubles in teh past, and for a while, trains were having to report clear of it to CTEC8

As mentioned above, "high speed turnout" refers to "high speedness" of the diverging route -

Midway interlocking is in 100 mph plus territory (135 i believe on 2 and 3 track) and they are still ol fashioned, plan ol frogs. A moveable point frog is one where the "frog" - the chuck of metal that looks like an X were the rails of the normal and divering routes are connected to, ordinarily has a gap in it to allow for the flange of teh wheels on diverging routes. a "moveable point frog" has a whole rail that moves and makes one solid rail surface, and allows for much higher speeds and smoother operation, and im sure much less wear on the frog points adn probably the wheels as well.

[PRRTechFan]

Are you really not familiar with movable frogs?

...not until Jtgshu's excellent explaination.... (Thanks!)

Like he said, frogs had always been a solid "X" chunk of metal, and it was the switch points that moved. I would like to see a picture or a diagram of a moveable frog switch, though.

[Jersey_Mike]

Like he said, frogs had always been a solid "X" chunk of metal, and it was the switch points that moved. I would like to see a picture or a diagram of a moveable frog switch, though.

Ask and you shall recieve. Here is the MPF as part of a high speed(?) crossover at CP-53 on the Hudson Line

http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... -HSTs.html

MPF' are necessary on HST's (high speed turnouts) because the angle is so acute that the resulting gap would not only cause a rought ride and increased maintainence, but also pose a derailment risk. Amt is installing MPF's on many of its limited speed turnouts now because of their smoother ride (a 4-track complete crossover can really throw someone carrying fude back to their seat from the cafe car around) and decreased long run maintainence burden. Many of the NEC interlockings really got into a sorry state resulting in passenger discomfort. MPF turnouts will stay smoother, longer.

An HST is usually defined as 60mph and over. 80 is the most popular speed in this country as it works well with existing signaling systems.

"High speed interlocking" refers to the speed through switches on a diverging route.

Not always. Before the use of MPF's, equilateral turnouts were very popular for high speed switching. On an equilateral turnout there is no "diverging" route because both routes have the same speed requirement, usually whatever the linespeed is and if not the restriction is listed in the timetable. Back in the day, the EL installed 70mph fixed frog equilateral turnouts when it changed its Chicago main to a single track with passing sidings. CSX was always a big fan of equilaterals and the ends of double track main line segments. Near be in baltimore there is an 50mph equilaterial at CLIFTON PARK. Amtrak has one on the Empire Connector at INWOOD. Conrail was never a fan of equilaterals and even if the speed through both routes was 30mph, the "straight" would give a clear and the "diverging" medium cpear. I suspect, but am not positive that CSX may be changing this. I have a video of CP-BERRY on the NY Short Line that appears to show a train getting a straight CLEAR off the passing siding.

Here's a pic of the equilateral at CLIFTON PARK.

http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... RK-Int.jpg

Note the signal lacks a medium speed orbital.

Oh, here's a bit of trivia. Does anyone know why its called a frog?

PS: I'll see what I can do about getting those pix up tonight.

[Silverliner II]

I have a video of CP-BERRY on the NY Short Line that appears to show a train getting a straight CLEAR off the passing siding.

The best you can get off Berry siding at CP-Berry is a Medium Clear; it is only a 30-mph turnout there. Oddly enough though, CP-Nesh has a 40-mph turnout, and the best you'll see there is a Limited Clear out of the siding.

[Jersey_Mike]

I put up the relevent photos.

Here they are from east to west.

http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... uild-1.jpg
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... uild-2.jpg
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... uild-3.jpg
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... uild-4.jpg
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... uild-5.jpg
http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... Gantry.jpg

Note the LIMITED speed triangles on the home signals. Also, how much empty space there was on the east end of the interlocking.

From what they have in place now, it seems that the smart thing to do would be to make a double set of ladder tracks to improve the throughput of the interlocking. If you make a connection to that #1 yard track (yellow bumper post next to tower) from #4 main and then keep the existing 55, 49 and 45..err, I mean 43, 32 and 21 switches, this will give you two routes into the yard so you can have a train exit while one enters OR have a TRE express cross from 3 to 4 while a JA local heads 4 to the yard.

Hey, are all the COUNTY turnouts 45mph, that 32 looks a little sharp to me. On the old COUNTY interlocking diagram it appears to be labeled as a #10 frog, which is 15mph, but its blurry and it could be a #20. The signal back this up as the #3 eastbound signal is unable to give a limited speed indication and #2 westbound can only give a slow speed diverging indication. In fact, I would guess that the lower | on 3 eastbound is to display APPROACH MEDIUM for an APPROACH on the 318 signal which is only 5500 feet away and that a move from 3 to 2 is 15mph.

Oh, RE the next interlockings to be upgraded. I think that ELMORA is high on the list. Those turnouts have just had it and there are many diverging mocements through there. MIDWAY is pretty smooth and its mostly straight rail.

[pgengler]

Oh, here's a bit of trivia. Does anyone know why its called a frog?

I always assumed (or read somewhere, and forgot where) that it was because the shape resembled a flattened (amphibious) frog, with its legs out in the X-ish shape.

[burkeman]

County interlocking was in bad shape. Everytime you hit the interlocking you know you was at County. But they have some crossovers thats good for 80mph but i dont think thats at County