Railroad Forums 

  • 2015-16 Meadowlands Observations

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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 #1401046  by trainbrain
 
I was talking about with day games. They could make it so the last train of the night holds at SEC to allow Meadowlands customers to board. They would have to put up signs saying to let the people going somewhere other than NYC board at Meadowlands first.
 #1401374  by trainbrain
 
One of the issues I've found is that they don't really control boarding at SEC. It's sort of a free for all to try and get on. One time I rode the Meadowlands train and they were delayed almost 10 minutes trying to close the doors. At Meadowlands, they have a queue set up and they open the first car, fill it up, then close it and move onto the second car, close that one up, and so on until all cars are full. Maybe setting up a queue and having more security guards directing traffic at SEC would help speed things up.

As for running the 10 car Multilevel sets like they did for the superbowl, I don't think it's really practical. If you remember, for the Superbowl, they started running single level trains on that RVL about a month out, because they had to break up the normal sets to assemble them for the Super Bowl. That's not practical to do for every event. Better to just run what the biggest sets they have in normal diesel service.

Although the Meadowlands service is by no means perfect, I think it's a great that so many people are riding public transit to get to the stadium, and it has been more than worth it to build the line.
 #1401732  by michaelk
 
i know it's not "simple" but can someone explain for "dummies" why metro north can have such (apparently) awesome service at Yankees Stadium while the NJT service is so less than ideal. We go to a pile of yankee games, i tend to park in the lot just the opposite side of the MNR station and so i take the station's pedestrian bridge to/from the game. There's always piles of trains coming and going and it seems like a score or more of ticket takers/sellers to service everyone quickly. Walking back to the car it feels like well more than a single digit percentage of the ~50k fans take the train.

Is it that Metro North/MTA just have piles more money to set up such an operation? It's service is generally just more frequent (related to money too i suppose)? They just built the station better (i know money again)? or something else.

Often as i walk past i dream of what could have been if the stars aligned and additional hudson river tunnels would have been built that continued on to grand central. Perhaps even a one seat ride to the stadium from NJ could have happened....

Anyway- does it all basically come down to money why NJT service is sub par?
 #1401780  by EuroStar
 
I would say money is the major item, but luck and politics also played a huge role.

Both Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Line predate me, but it is easy to figure out a few things. When Secaucus was built nobody must have thought of the Meadowlands Line or you would not see the awkward operations on game/event days when one platform is reserved for the Meadowlands and the other trains must squeeze on one track each in each direction. Meadowlands line was probably politically motivated give away to keep the stadium in NJ when what is currently the Metlife stadium was in planning stages. Then probably lack of money motivated the current alignment from the closest line even though it could not offer direct service to any meaningful market. As it has been suggested in the past looping the line would bring great improvement in the performance, but there is no money for that as it is very expensive to go over/under route 3. Some time back the cost of that was estimated at $350 million.

I cannot see any major improvement in service other than smoothing operations by adding more trains and personnel until Gateway tunnels are built. Then you have a shot at getting the Secaucus Loop and a better Hoboken Wye plus westbound Waterfront connection. Then you might see direct service from NEC, M&E and NYP. Direct service from Main/Bergen will likely never happen. Port Jervis might see it if Metro-North restores the Spring Valley-Suffern link. The timeline of any of these is 50 years. The stadium will be obsolete long before then.

This is nowhere comparable to Yankees Stadium and Metro-North: They have a convenient yard next to the station thanks to ESA and a wye which has always been there to connect the Harlem and the New-Haven lines to Hudson.
 #1401784  by trainbrain
 
SEC opened in 2003 and the Meadowlands Line opened in 2009. They are completely and totally unrelated.

The Meadowlands Line was built as part of the project that replaced Giants Stadium with Metlife Stadium. Yes it was done on the cheap, but that's what allowed it to be finished largely on time. It was designed to be operated using mostly existing infrastructure. It isn't as good as MNCR/LIRR service to Mets and Yankees games, because those stadiums are built right on the main commuter lines. It's not a spur line like the Meadowlands line is. However, it is better than having no public transit at all, or some other transit agencies do.

I would disagree that the line is not operationally profitable. About 10,000 people ride it every day it operates. The fare from SEC is 2.25 one way, 4.50 round trip. Multiply by 10,000 and that's 45,000 dollars that they're making. That still doesn't account for people who rode trains from other locations that would otherwise not have done so. I don't think it costs very much to actually operate the line since they're using equipment that normally would've been sitting in Hoboken all weekend.
 #1402036  by trainbrain
 
Looking at the Meadowlands timetable, it appears that they run 6 sets for most events. The trains mostly go back and fourth between SEC platforms G and H and Meadowlands. However, all the sets come out of Hoboken, so on each set's first and last run it will go all the way to Hoboken. Some trips that end at SEC have timed transfers to trains to Hoboken. However, other trains do not.

Right after the end of a 1pm football game, the train leaving Meadowlands at 4:50 is the first train that will get you all the way to Hoboken. The trains before end at SEC and then turn to go back to Meadowlands to pick up another load. There aren't even any transfers to a train to Hoboken that will get you there before the said train above.

I see this as a major issue. It is not nearly as attractive to take the train to the Meadowlands if you've got to wait an hour for the train to leave. I know they want all the trains immediately turning back to Meadowlands to handle the post game rush, but could they at least send one of those trains to Hoboken. Also, I believe that when the line first opened, they ran everything to Hoboken.