Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

[Lackawanna565]

I didn't check if someone mentioned this on here. The article I'm referring to is a few years old. PA state representative Paul Kanjorski was talking about running trains at 140mph over the cut-off. It will be nice to see if they did that. Both for people going to the city and for railfans taking photos and videos. Someone mentioned to me that NJT was planning on electrifying to East Stroudsburg. I never found anything on it. But both are of course just talk. I'll be happy when they get the service to Scranton with decent service. I'm sure I railfan the line alot if they have rule 562 on it. Like I said in my earlier post. I'm interested in getting footage of the "C" lamp flashing. Since I live about a hour from the Poconos. It will be a shorter driving time for me since the other lines that have rule 562 on them are two or three hours away.

[sean3f]

How can I get a perking permit for Andover station?

[Tommy Meehan]

I didn't check if someone mentioned this on here. The article I'm referring to is a few years old. PA state representative Paul Kanjorski was talking about running trains at 140mph over the cut-off.

That was about eleven years ago wasn't it? When Kanjorski was hoping to get money for a high speed rail corridor?

Wilkes Barre News - June 17, 2003
In addition, Kanjorski said, he is working to upgrade the planned Lackawanna line to run high-speed trains. With trains running up to 140 mph, passengers could pare down their Scranton-to-New York commute from three hours to one, he said. Even without the high-speed service, Kanjorski called the rail line "absolutely essential" for economic development in the region. Link

I think that train left the station a long time ago. Here's a link to something a bit more recent and more reasonable.

This is from Pennsylvania's Institute for Public Policy & Economic Development:

The new passenger rail line will operate diesel locomotives that depart 45 minutes apart during peak hours, and which reach speeds of 70mph. According to the environmental assessment, the first train of the day will depart from Scranton at 4 a.m. and the last will return to Scranton at 1 a.m. A trip to Hoboken will take 3 hours and 20 minutes. NJ Transit estimates that 3,350 passengers will ride the commuter trains eastbound daily.

[Bill S]

New Jersey Herald this morning with headline on page A-7 " Work moving ahead on Lackawanna Cutoff" .
Bid solicitation has been published for the Roseville Tunnel work.

[Jersey_Mike]

New Jersey Herald this morning with headline on page A-7 " Work moving ahead on Lackawanna Cutoff" .
Bid solicitation has been published for the Roseville Tunnel work.

10 years on and they are just bidding that contract now?

[Tommy Meehan]

Here's a link to the New Jersey Herald article about the Roseville tunnel work.

NEWTON — Work is moving ahead, but behind the scenes, to finish the rail line that will bring commuter rail service to Andover, the Sussex County freeholders were told Wednesday. During the board's regular meeting Wednesday evening, the group was updated by Freeholder Director Rich Vohden, that the bid solicitation has been published for the Roseville Tunnel work...The tunnel's ceiling has been collapsing almost from the day it was opened to rail traffic in the early 1900s.

[CNJ Fan 4evr]

Wouldn't it be cheaper/wiser to make Roseville tunnel a cut ? I wonder why it was never done that way from the beginning.

[dowlingm]

Wouldn't it be cheaper/wiser to make Roseville tunnel a cut ? I wonder why it was never done that way from the beginning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseville_Tunnel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[zerovanity59]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseville_Tunnel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow, looking at the money and effort put into the Lackawanna Cutoff it makes me wounder why no railroad ever cut or tunneled through the Watchung Mountains, instead of going one of the long ways around them. Practically every gap had a railroad through it. The Passaic River had the Boonton branch (I-80), the Great Notch had the New York and Greenwood Lake (Montclair-Boonton), Hobart Gap has the Morris and Essex. The Central Railroad of New Jersey, and the Lehigh Valley Railroad both pass just south of the Mountains.

[pumpers]

For you fellow geography fans, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchung_Mountains" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a great schematic map showing the 4 Watchung ridges and the gaps mentioned above (which are gaps through the first and/or second Watchung mountains.) The gaps are described in the text. (EDIT: The Hobart gap is the one by Springfield, and the 1st and 2nd Watchung Mountains are the 2 blue lines, with the 1st being closest to Springfield.)

It is interesting to note that the M&E used Hobart Gap through the First Watchung Mountain, but then climbed up the 2nd mountain to go to Summit, rather than continue straight through the Hobart Gap to Chatham (like modern Route 24 does). Guess Summit had clout way back when too.
JS
Comment: I grew up near the top of the 2nd Mountain, and we used Hobart gap weekly (even though I didn't know it then) to visit relatives down in the flatlands (with a car that is!).

[mtuandrew]

Okay, here's a silly question.

Let's say that the stars align, the Feds give PA, NY, and NJ some money, and the Cutoff gets reconstructed. Great, we say, NJT can run service from East Stroudsburg to Hoboken, and Amtrak from Buffalo to Hoboken through Hornell, Binghamton, and Scranton. My question is, how much money would need to be waved in front of Amtrak to get the train into New York Penn rather than Hoboken? Assume that NY is willing to replace one of its existing Empire Service trains with this one, as its contribution.

[DutchRailnut]

what makes you think Amtrak wants this route ?
what makes you think NJT wants to give Amtrak trackage rights on cutoff ??
what makes you think feds would give more than 20% funding for project ?? as that is pretty much standard.

[amtrakowitz]

Roseville Tunnel – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, looking at the money and effort put into the Lackawanna Cutoff it makes me wounder why no railroad ever cut or tunneled through the Watchung Mountains, instead of going one of the long ways around them. Practically every gap had a railroad through it. The Passaic River had the Boonton branch (I-80), the Great Notch had the New York and Greenwood Lake (Montclair-Boonton), Hobart Gap has the Morris and Essex. The Central Railroad of New Jersey, and the Lehigh Valley Railroad both pass just south of the Mountains.

Most likely the DL&W ran out of money. After all, there were plans to make the Cutoff a four-track railroad at one time also. The DL&W's electrification project also ate up a considerable amount of money, with no subsequent direct route into Manhattan following.

[amtrakowitz]

Okay, here's a silly question.

Let's say that the stars align, the Feds give PA, NY, and NJ some money, and the Cutoff gets reconstructed. Great, we say, NJT can run service from East Stroudsburg to Hoboken, and Amtrak from Buffalo to Hoboken through Hornell, Binghamton, and Scranton. My question is, how much money would need to be waved in front of Amtrak to get the train into New York Penn rather than Hoboken? Assume that NY is willing to replace one of its existing Empire Service trains with this one, as its contribution

what makes you think Amtrak wants this route ?
what makes you think NJT wants to give Amtrak trackage rights on cutoff ??
what makes you think feds would give more than 20% funding for project ?? as that is pretty much standard.

Technically, Amtrak doesn't "want" any of its routes, yes? They go where they are wanted, just like any other commuter railroad setup, and by that it's meant that they go where the most politically-connected want them to go versus the actual passengers.

And according to federal law, neither NJT nor any other railroad can deny Amtrak trackage rights, unless that's changed recently? When did the federal-state match for funding get inverted from 80-20 to 20-80?

Not practical to send any more trains to NYP, and even if by some miracle Gateway gets built, it's only to relieve the existing pressure and most likely to enable a rebuild of the original North River tunnels. Also, unless Amtrak suddenly starts using ALP-45DPs, there's no chance of any engine change being permitted at Dover.

[amtrakowitz]

Wouldn't it be cheaper/wiser to make Roseville tunnel a cut? I wonder why it was never done that way from the beginning.

Cheaper than what, rebuilding an existing tunnel? Not likely. Certainly not for six trains in each direction per weekday.