beanbag wrote:Am I the only one of the opinion that they should fix the damaged dual modes before even thinking of offering this type of service?No.
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One-Seat Ride to NYC on Raritan Valley Line
- Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
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beanbag wrote:The 45s from what Ive seen arent too much slower accelerationwise than a 46 pushing 8 MLs in diesel mode. They definitely have got grunt ThirdRail... I wouldnt be so quick to discredit them.
From what you've seen? When did you see one with 10 loaded mlvs in mountainous territory attempting to make short stops? There is a huge difference between 8 cars and 10 cars. The alp 44s had grunt but the schedule suffered when they were used. When NJT tried to run 12 cars, they had to double up the power to maintain the performance even though the alp-46s are powerful. On a day with inclement weather, there is cause for concern and this is from people that operate the trains. You will also burn more fuel with a larger consist.You can't replace a larger connecting train with a smaller connecting train which is this is an operational challenge. I've seen a diesel pull 12 mus, a dead 46 and 8 comets. Does that mean that would make a good passenger consist? Does that mean it could hold a schedule?
If you electrified the line, a lot of the issues would disappear. It would probably even help the lower coast line passengers.
I want my road foreman!
Meant to delete that post but thanks for the clairifcation ThirdRail. I was always under the impression that the M@E was pretty mountainous, is the RVL moreso?
beanbag wrote:Meant to delete that post but thanks for the clairifcation ThirdRail. I was always under the impression that the M@E was pretty mountainous, is the RVL moreso?I wouldn't call the RVL mountainous. A little undulating maybe, around Fanwood, but certainly not mountainous.
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.
Don31 wrote:Except maybe, Whitehouse to Lebanon/Annandale? That is somewhere 1.5 to 2% grade I believe, the CNJ had helper locomotives at Whitehouse for westbound freights from what I have read. On an excursion from Jersey City to Jim Thorpe that I rode in 1965 or 1966 a CNJ diesel was added there to help the steam engine up the mountain westbound.beanbag wrote:Meant to delete that post but thanks for the clairifcation ThirdRail. I was always under the impression that the M@E was pretty mountainous, is the RVL moreso?I wouldn't call the RVL mountainous. A little undulating maybe, around Fanwood, but certainly not mountainous.
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
Watching the various readings on the loco, the hardest pull out of a station is actually out of Union station on the LL going west. The loco gets to the highest tractive effort there when starting out.
I don't have the track charts memorized, but from my own experience the steepest grades (other than the Aldene Ramp, some say is 8 percent - HAHAHH that goes WAAAAAAAAY back for all you old time RR.net'ers....) is the pull out of Westfield over the Crossways Place (? I think) bridge, and then out of Raritan up to the curve west of Brad. From there its level to North Branch. From North Branch to Whitehouse its a good uphill, west out of North Branch can be a lil tricky sometimes on the curve and grade, but leading up to the School Road crossing east of Whitehouse, its actually very steep - doesn't look it, but it is. Have to pretty hold notch 8 to maintain speed. West out of Whitehouse is a grade, not terrible, but enough, but after you make the curve by Tunk, it really starts. Thats steep up to the curve past Old Mountain Road Xing. Ive almost stalled there on an icy/foggy night this past winter. Not fun. Constant, pretty steady grade all the way from Lebanon up to Annandale, the curve at Annandale has a pretty good grade then it kinda levels out to High Bridge
to put it in perspective, a Geep or F40 with 6 Comets can barely get up to 70mph going up the mountain (Xing up in the Morning) - and some could never make it. You are in Notch 8 the whole time. A PL with 6MLs is much better, but still it gets a workout. No not as crazy as the MandE or other Hoboken Div lines, but remember during leaf season, the RVL doesn't get the benefit of Aqua Train......
I don't have the track charts memorized, but from my own experience the steepest grades (other than the Aldene Ramp, some say is 8 percent - HAHAHH that goes WAAAAAAAAY back for all you old time RR.net'ers....) is the pull out of Westfield over the Crossways Place (? I think) bridge, and then out of Raritan up to the curve west of Brad. From there its level to North Branch. From North Branch to Whitehouse its a good uphill, west out of North Branch can be a lil tricky sometimes on the curve and grade, but leading up to the School Road crossing east of Whitehouse, its actually very steep - doesn't look it, but it is. Have to pretty hold notch 8 to maintain speed. West out of Whitehouse is a grade, not terrible, but enough, but after you make the curve by Tunk, it really starts. Thats steep up to the curve past Old Mountain Road Xing. Ive almost stalled there on an icy/foggy night this past winter. Not fun. Constant, pretty steady grade all the way from Lebanon up to Annandale, the curve at Annandale has a pretty good grade then it kinda levels out to High Bridge
to put it in perspective, a Geep or F40 with 6 Comets can barely get up to 70mph going up the mountain (Xing up in the Morning) - and some could never make it. You are in Notch 8 the whole time. A PL with 6MLs is much better, but still it gets a workout. No not as crazy as the MandE or other Hoboken Div lines, but remember during leaf season, the RVL doesn't get the benefit of Aqua Train......
On the RR, "believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see"
John, aka "JTGSHU" passed away on August 26, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.
John, aka "JTGSHU" passed away on August 26, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.
Perhaps NJT should pull a Milwaukee Road and electrify the hilly end of the route? Jus an idea...
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25Hz wrote:Perhaps NJT should pull a Milwaukee Road and electrify the hilly end of the route? Jus an idea...Might as well electrify the whole line if your want to wire up the hilly end.
"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches." Margaret Thatcher
morris&essex4ever wrote:Back a dozen years ago NJT applied for transmission service to electrify west to Raritan and from Bridgewater to West Trenton. The transmission study was done, and at that time there was adequate transmission capacity to supply the substations that would have been built. West of Raritan would presumably have continued to be diesel since electrification was not part of the study request.25Hz wrote:Perhaps NJT should pull a Milwaukee Road and electrify the hilly end of the route? Jus an idea...Might as well electrify the whole line if your want to wire up the hilly end.
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
Why can't Raritan Valley Line Riders make a direct ride into Manhattan--and new trans-hudson tunnels--a serious issue in the upcoming November elections?!
morris&essex4ever wrote:Well, I disagree. If it improves the schedule and saves fuel it would be worthwhile, especially if you have these trains trying to make NYP slots on time.25Hz wrote:Perhaps NJT should pull a Milwaukee Road and electrify the hilly end of the route? Jus an idea...Might as well electrify the whole line if your want to wire up the hilly end.
The rest of the line could be done at a later date when a more serious look at full electric service is given, because at that point you would have whatever electric equipment NJT has running out there, and you would remove the fuling pad and re-configure the yards for wires etc etc etc. A short stretch wouldn't need all that.
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Thomas wrote:Why can't Raritan Valley Line Riders make a direct ride into Manhattan--and new trans-hudson tunnels--a serious issue in the upcoming November elections?!No capacity, especially so on weekends. You'd have to cut back a NEC train to newark penn or truncate a hob div train or fiddle with the coast line trains.
Next stop the square, journal square station next!
Thomas wrote:Why can't Raritan Valley Line Riders make a direct ride into Manhattan--and new trans-hudson tunnels--a serious issue in the upcoming November elections?!Well, there is the pilot program that is scheduled to start next spring that will give some off peak trains direct service into NYP. Obviously there are many obstacles to allowing rush hour RVL trains to go to NYP.
"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches." Margaret Thatcher
25Hz wrote:I've never heard of a rail line that was electrified for a short stretch like that.morris&essex4ever wrote:Well, I disagree. If it improves the schedule and saves fuel it would be worthwhile, especially if you have these trains trying to make NYP slots on time.25Hz wrote:Perhaps NJT should pull a Milwaukee Road and electrify the hilly end of the route? Jus an idea...Might as well electrify the whole line if your want to wire up the hilly end.
The rest of the line could be done at a later date when a more serious look at full electric service is given, because at that point you would have whatever electric equipment NJT has running out there, and you would remove the fuling pad and re-configure the yards for wires etc etc etc. A short stretch wouldn't need all that.
"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches." Margaret Thatcher
morris&essex4ever wrote:Theyre opening up a hornets nest with that. They NEED to fix the other 45s...Thomas wrote:Why can't Raritan Valley Line Riders make a direct ride into Manhattan--and new trans-hudson tunnels--a serious issue in the upcoming November elections?!Well, there is the pilot program that is scheduled to start next spring that will give some off peak trains direct service into NYP. Obviously there are many obstacles to allowing rush hour RVL trains to go to NYP.