Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

[mtuandrew]

Ok, so the Lackawanna Cutoff was an inferior freight routing since the DLW main down Garrett Mountain (Paterson) was removed for I-80. And,
I-80 needs major reconstruction to handle the heavy traffic from cars and trucks.

How about, during said major reconstruction, NJDOT builds in room for a new railroad in Paterson? The state doesn’t actually need to lay ties and rail, just create a box for the first taker. Sell the rights to the Cutoff and said Garrett Mountain Grade as a package deal for $1, property tax to be refunded by the state for every year there is active rail on the entirety of both properties (with a ten-year grace period for every year there is active construction - these things aren’t instantaneous after all.)

I’m not sure any major road would take the offer - NS has a route, CSX has a route, CP and CN are currently content to route over those two - but it’s a way to possibly entice a public-private partnership that would benefit a number of stakeholders.

[EuroStar]

How about, during said major reconstruction, NJDOT builds in room for a new railroad in Paterson? The state doesn’t actually need to lay ties and rail, just create a box for the first taker. Sell the rights to the Cutoff and said Garrett Mountain Grade as a package deal for $1, property tax to be refunded by the state for every year there is active rail on the entirety of both properties (with a ten-year grace period for every year there is active construction - these things aren’t instantaneous after all.)

This is creative, I give you that. There is not enough freight to justify a private entity getting involved. Last I heard NS had 2 regular freights trains to Croxton Yard and can route at least another 4 freights without getting in the way of NJT. CSX has the exclusive use of the River Sub and their own yard in the area too. CP and CN have no yards and good luck with trying to build a new yard in the vicinity of NY. The permits will never be approved.

If the highway is to ever be reconstructed through Patterson, NJDOT certainly should look into leaving a "box" of some sort for at least one track, but that would be for later use by NJT/Amtrak to run passenger service, not freight. The Cutoff via the congested M&E is not time competitive. The old routing through Patterson is definitely much faster and a single track might suffice in that area.

[JoeG]

I hadn't thought about restoring the Boonton Line.I have no idea how much would have to be rebuilt aside from Garrett Mountain. Back in the day the Lackawanna had an express commuter train that made Hoboken-Boonton in 40 minutes. So if this could be done now, we wouldn't need stops at Boonton or Mountain Lakes or maybe Denville. So maybe the train could make Dover in 50 minutes. The Phoebe Snow did Dover-Scranton in 2 hours 10 minutes. If that time were maintained we would have 3 hours Hoboken-Boonton. That's a pretty long commute. Would the train be able to stop at Secaucus? If so, another couple of minutes. Maybe the train could go faster in PA but still a pretty grueling commute.

[ebtmikado]

. The Phoebe Snow did Dover-Scranton in 2 hours 10 minutes. If that time were maintained we would have 3 hours Hoboken-Boonton. That's a pretty long commute.

That's just about walking speed.

[amtrakowitz]

. The Phoebe Snow did Dover-Scranton in 2 hours 10 minutes. If that time were maintained we would have 3 hours Hoboken-Boonton. That's a pretty long commute.

That's just about walking speed.

I have never heard of anyone who could walk at 40 mph.

I am looking at a 1954 timetable for the PS and the time taken from Hoboken to Scranton was 3 hours 15 minutes, including a station stop at Brick Church in East Orange. How many commuter trains these days even match that average speed? Would NJT stop at Brick Church if they ran this service herein discussed, and/or would Amtrak have the wisdom to skip that station presuming it was so instituted?

[Roadgeek Adam]

. The Phoebe Snow did Dover-Scranton in 2 hours 10 minutes. If that time were maintained we would have 3 hours Hoboken-Boonton. That's a pretty long commute.

That's just about walking speed.

I have never heard of anyone who could walk at 40 mph.

I am looking at a 1954 timetable for the PS and the time taken from Hoboken to Scranton was 3 hours 15 minutes, including a station stop at Brick Church in East Orange. How many commuter trains these days even match that average speed? Would NJT stop at Brick Church if they ran this service herein discussed, and/or would Amtrak have the wisdom to skip that station presuming it was so instituted?

I've always presumed if Amtrak or NJ Transit ran it, Brick Church would be one of the few on an express service, but I don't think it would come anywhere close to matching it.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Brick Church would be an excellent stop for express service. I think that station has always been part of the East Orange Business District. There is a lot of modern development around Brick Church too. In the short term, there will be a massive redevelopment project to the Brick Church shopping plaza which presently has a Shoprite Supermarket as well as a pizzaria.

[Backshophoss]

The "Snow" has passed on to RR history,,Amtrak will NEVER run service out of Hoboken, Just get the rails to Andover and then STOP!!!
PA is anti mass transit GIVE UP on Scranton,please!!!!!!

[photobug56]

No

[CarterB]

It'll never get beyond Andover.

[njtmnrrbuff]

I think if there would ever be rail service to Scranton, it would be best for it to be an Amtrak state sponsored corridor route not only ending up in the Electric City. NY State might as also well chip in to have it extended to serve Binghamton, Elmyra, and all places in between up to Syracuse.

[Dcell]

It'll never get beyond Andover.

That’s the most accurate and realistic comment on this board in a long time.

[n2cbo]

The "Snow" has passed on to RR history,,Amtrak will NEVER run service out of Hoboken, Just get the rails to Andover and then STOP!!!
PA is anti mass transit GIVE UP on Scranton,please!!!!!!

It would NOT have to run from Hoboken. It could run out of Penn, just like all the other Midtown Direct services.

[amtrakowitz]

The "Snow" has passed on to RR history,,Amtrak will NEVER run service out of Hoboken, Just get the rails to Andover and then STOP!!!
PA is anti mass transit GIVE UP on Scranton,please!!!!!!

Thanks for the rant. Are you calling for the mods to lock the thread?

[DutchRailnut]

might as well, the cutoff is a dead issue and has turned into a fantasy tread.
Amtrak on southern tier would be new business and not likely to happen.