NY Times: Odors on PATH Trains

[umtrr-author]

In the NY Times on June 7, 2011:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/nyreg ... f=nyregion



Fair use quote:

There comes a moment for riders of the PATH train, a shared, unspoken experience when the air is pierced by a distinct odor... For decades, PATH riders have wondered about the smells of their trains...

A more precise answer might be available from Larry Sunshine, president of Plasma Air International, which tries to smooth over unpleasant smells from apartment buildings, schools and airports. Mr. Sunshine, whose experience includes helping to remove smells coming from toilets on 300 train cars in Sydney, Australia, accepted an invitation to try to identify the odors peculiar to PATH trains.

Please note that The NY Times website is now pay-to-play after five articles viewed.

I would have said "rotten eggs," myself. That's the odor I remember from childhood to now. But I'm no expert!

[Terry Kennedy]

I would have said "rotten eggs," myself. That's the odor I remember from childhood to now. But I'm no expert!

Correct! The distinctive "Hoboken smell" in the PATH station from years gone by is from iron-reducing bacteria which produce hydrogen sulfide. The tunnels in that area were treated some years ago, and the smell is vastly reduced.

There's a different issue in Tunnel A (33rd toward Hoboken). The oldest parts of that tunnel (1879-1882) were built with 1/4" iron plate lined with 6 courses of brick, in the silt at the bottom of the riverbed. I'd expect that most of that iron plate is corroded away by now, and the brick and masonry joints are slightly porous, so you get the "wet basement" smell.

Occasionally you get smells drifting in from non-PATH sources. The first really warm night of this year, around 1 or 2 AM, the Conrail garbage train was sitting at Journal Square for some reason, with loads of those blue containers full of NYC's trash. As we pulled into the station, one woman remarked "What's that smell? It smells like dead animals!". When the doors opened, at least two people vomited on the platform from the smell.

[HBLR]

Correct! The distinctive "Hoboken smell" in the PATH station from years gone by is from iron-reducing bacteria which produce hydrogen sulfide. The tunnels in that area were treated some years ago, and the smell is vastly reduced.

There's a different issue in Tunnel A (33rd toward Hoboken). The oldest parts of that tunnel (1879-1882) were built with 1/4" iron plate lined with 6 courses of brick, in the silt at the bottom of the riverbed. I'd expect that most of that iron plate is corroded away by now, and the brick and masonry joints are slightly porous, so you get the "wet basement" smell.

Occasionally you get smells drifting in from non-PATH sources. The first really warm night of this year, around 1 or 2 AM, the Conrail garbage train was sitting at Journal Square for some reason, with loads of those blue containers full of NYC's trash. As we pulled into the station, one woman remarked "What's that smell? It smells like dead animals!". When the doors opened, at least two people vomited on the platform from the smell.

The trash train is there quite often, all most always stinking up the whole station at platform level. There is brake dust smell, the wet basement smell, decomposing algae smell, mold smell, electricity smells, human smells, the trash train, smells from condensation forming due to air pressure and humidity in the tunnels bringing whatever odors lay in the tunnels with it, construction smells, and my favorite, lubrication grease smells.

[OportRailfan]

Correct! The distinctive "Hoboken smell" in the PATH station from years gone by is from iron-reducing bacteria which produce hydrogen sulfide. The tunnels in that area were treated some years ago, and the smell is vastly reduced.

There's a different issue in Tunnel A (33rd toward Hoboken). The oldest parts of that tunnel (1879-1882) were built with 1/4" iron plate lined with 6 courses of brick, in the silt at the bottom of the riverbed. I'd expect that most of that iron plate is corroded away by now, and the brick and masonry joints are slightly porous, so you get the "wet basement" smell.

Occasionally you get smells drifting in from non-PATH sources. The first really warm night of this year, around 1 or 2 AM, the Conrail garbage train was sitting at Journal Square for some reason, with loads of those blue containers full of NYC's trash. As we pulled into the station, one woman remarked "What's that smell? It smells like dead animals!". When the doors opened, at least two people vomited on the platform from the smell.

The trash train is there quite often, all most always stinking up the whole station at platform level. There is brake dust smell, the wet basement smell, decomposing algae smell, mold smell, electricity smells, human smells, the trash train, smells from condensation forming due to air pressure and humidity in the tunnels bringing whatever odors lay in the tunnels with it, construction smells, and my favorite, lubrication grease smells.

Thank you meteorologist Dr. TRE.

No BS!

[HBLR]

I'm not a doctor (or dentist) tré.

[PONYA]

The true Hoboken-33rd "rotten egg" smell was primarily caused by the underground bulkhead to the Hudson River at the Lackawanna end of Hoboken. Chiefly the long passageway leading the NJT end of the station.

PATH completed a long term project shoring the walls so they were not leaking during during high tide, Nor'Easters, heavy rains. The smell has mainly dissipated over the years. {Last 3-5 years}.

Before this trains departing Hoboken would draw the smell into the low areas of the tunnel between the Caissons and Morton Street shaft and down the tunnel towards Newport station. A true funky smell would permenant. The tunnels now have a more "musty" smell rather than rotten eggs.

[HBLR]

I've found the smell at exchange place to be similar to seawater, concrete, and rust. Things that are quite prevalent. The smell has been like that since they rebuilt the station & interlocking after 9/11. Before that it smelled like seawater & antique shop funk.

[drumz0rz]

This has been on my mind for weeks and I finally remembered and checked the forums! I'm used to the Subways, in fact, I'd say that brake dust stank is one of my favorite smells. The PATH though.... Even when you've got the breeze of an approaching train, it's always so humid down there, and the smell... It's like wet concrete mixed with I don't even know what. I've always wondered why it doesn't smell like the Subways. I guess we'll really never actually know.

[25Hz]

This has been on my mind for weeks and I finally remembered and checked the forums! I'm used to the Subways, in fact, I'd say that brake dust stank is one of my favorite smells. The PATH though.... Even when you've got the breeze of an approaching train, it's always so humid down there, and the smell... It's like wet concrete mixed with I don't even know what. I've always wondered why it doesn't smell like the Subways. I guess we'll really never actually know.

It's due to the exposure & proximity to salt water, and the tunnels being made out of iron. The subway is primarily cut and cover or elevated or in a cut, while PATH uses tunnels along the waterfront which were dug largely through fill soaked in salty river water. The pressure exerted by the water has resulted in leaks, which create a permanently humid environment. PATH also only has fan plants at newport & exchange place stations (not sure bout hoboken), which doesn't help things. More ventilation would probably improve the humidity level quite a bit.