Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #930531  by Tommy Meehan
 
OportRailfan wrote:Leave it to the NTSB/FRA for the final ruling.
Question: Would it be the NTSB and the FTA?

It has happened before only I seem to remember it usually wasn't human error.

It's happened upstairs too. Once it was a result of a test crew spreading gel on a rail for a test and then not cleaning it off adequately. Maybe Sirsonic remembers that one but it must've been about twenty-five years ago.
 #930540  by OportRailfan
 
Tommy Meehan wrote:
OportRailfan wrote:Leave it to the NTSB/FRA for the final ruling.
Question: Would it be the NTSB and the FTA?

It has happened before only I seem to remember it usually wasn't human error.

It's happened upstairs too. Once it was a result of a test crew spreading gel on a rail for a test and then not cleaning it off adequately. Maybe Sirsonic remembers that one but it must've been about twenty-five years ago.
As far as I know, PATH is still regulated by the FRA as they operate technically as a railroad.

...and yes their connection to Amtrak out in Hudson yard has been severed.
 #930562  by keithsy
 
I pray that this will be a fair and impartial examination and not a witchhunt. There are two schools of thought-mechanical error or human error. Whatever. I want to see this to be fair-FOR ALL CONCERNED.
 #930923  by trackguy
 
OportRailfan wrote:
Tommy Meehan wrote:
OportRailfan wrote:Leave it to the NTSB/FRA for the final ruling.
Question: Would it be the NTSB and the FTA?

It has happened before only I seem to remember it usually wasn't human error.

It's happened upstairs too. Once it was a result of a test crew spreading gel on a rail for a test and then not cleaning it off adequately. Maybe Sirsonic remembers that one but it must've been about twenty-five years ago.
As far as I know, PATH is still regulated by the FRA as they operate technically as a railroad.

...and yes their connection to Amtrak out in Hudson yard has been severed.
Yes. Oport's right about this. PATH is under FRA, it is a railroad, although it runs rapid transit services, just like Subways (MTA - NYCT).
 #930925  by trackguy
 
OportRailfan wrote:
Allan wrote:
OportRailfan wrote:
Well they kinda don't have speedometer in the older consists, so yeah - speed is guesstimated.
There's a way to estimate how fast the train was going (fairly accurate average speed/velocity, not the instantaneous speed/velocity) if you were at Hoboken Station platform (Tunnel End), and if you timed this (in seconds) how long it took all cars to go through from beginning of the first car and to the end of the last car of the consist that crashed bumper block.

Speed Conversion is as follows:

Length of Unit (PATH runs 7-cars trains, in this case): Approx. 350 feet
Divided by time (seconds): Let's say 10 seconds (if someone happened to witnessed Hoboken Train Crash, please verify this.)
Multiplied by 60 x 60: (3600)
Divided by (5,280) feet per mile

i.e. 350/10=35
35 x 3600=126000
126000/5280=23.86 mph

Therefore, then if it took 10 seonds for the entire 7-car trains to enter Hoboken Station platform and clear (when hitting the bumper?), then it is running at around 23.86 mph. (Of course, this is just an example. But this is a useful way to estimate how fast the trains are going when they fly by you.) The faster the trains clears, the faster the train is running.
 #948019  by keithsy
 
A PRELIMINARY NTSB REPORT BLAMES THE FEMALE ENGINEER FOR EXCESSIVE SPEED, as per the New York Post
I hate to see anyone lose their job. I will not judge the young lady. Yet, here are some observations. Quantity, as opposed to quanlity has been the rule in recwnt decades. In the relentlessness of affirmative-action, standards have been lowered in the name of equality. Also, to save money, training times have been shortened because there is a less variety of equipment to learn and more time is being spent on "courtesy and amenities." There is, no more, rote memorization of [hysical charicteristics. Signal diagrams are now on tunnel walls.The important part of the job is operating the equipment in a safe professional manner, which is not being taught and done. Kissing up to the passengers in vain and for glory is not.
 #994629  by 25Hz
 
keithsy wrote:A PRELIMINARY NTSB REPORT BLAMES THE FEMALE ENGINEER FOR EXCESSIVE SPEED, as per the New York Post
I hate to see anyone lose their job. I will not judge the young lady. Yet, here are some observations. Quantity, as opposed to quanlity has been the rule in recwnt decades. In the relentlessness of affirmative-action, standards have been lowered in the name of equality. Also, to save money, training times have been shortened because there is a less variety of equipment to learn and more time is being spent on "courtesy and amenities." There is, no more, rote memorization of [hysical charicteristics. Signal diagrams are now on tunnel walls.The important part of the job is operating the equipment in a safe professional manner, which is not being taught and done. Kissing up to the passengers in vain and for glory is not.

I don't appreciate the accusatory tone of your statement. Affirmative action is a legal recourse that which companies proven to discriminate against minorities are required to meet a quota of hiring minorities. Not sure if you've ever been discriminated against, but it happens to good people all the time. Standards of hiring have everything to do with management, and little else. As someone who has utilized PATH hundreds of times i've never once felt unsafe in stations or onboard trains. The crews are generally friendly, and the work ethic is considerably higher than some other workplaces i am also familiar with.

No one is perfect, people make mistakes all the time, including pilots, railroad engineers & train operators, even surgeons and pharmacists. Next time before you get on your soap box and try to blame something on someone based on their age and gender kindly keep those thoughts to yourself, as they have no place in civilized society. Thanks.
 #995466  by Tommy Meehan
 
I got a kick out of the fact that someone who is complaining about standards being watered down then went ahead and wrote the following two sentences:
Quantity, as opposed to quanlity has been the rule in recwnt decades....There is, no more, rote memorization of [hysical charicteristics.
And folks if that ain't just typical I don't know what is! :)
 #995525  by 25Hz
 
Tommy Meehan wrote:I got a kick out of the fact that someone who is complaining about standards being watered down then went ahead and wrote the following two sentences:
Quantity, as opposed to quanlity has been the rule in recwnt decades....There is, no more, rote memorization of [hysical charicteristics.
And folks if that ain't just typical I don't know what is! :)
Who said the interwebs wasn't good for a chuckle?
 #1065349  by Terry Kennedy
 
keithsy wrote:I pray that this will be a fair and impartial examination and not a witchhunt. There are two schools of thought-mechanical error or human error. Whatever. I want to see this to be fair-FOR ALL CONCERNED.
Out of curiousity, I checked with the NTSB to see if the report had been released yet. It was released on May 10th and can be found at: http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitli ... etID=51144

The whole thing is 198 pages long (plus 3 pages with 1 photograph each, and 1 table of contents page). I've been through all 202 pages and no conclusion was stated, nor were any recommendations made. There's a huge amount of detailed info in there, though, including both the on-the-scene written statements from the engineer and conductor as well as the subsequent interview transcripts (61 pages for the engineer interview transcript)
 #1065385  by 25Hz
 
Thanks Terry. Have been waiting for the results of the investigation.

Yes there was another in a yard tail track at journal square.
 #1103725  by MBTA1016
 
TDowling wrote:If my memory serves, wasn't there another crash on PATH before this one?
There was, I think it's been discussed here. I'll see if I can dig it up for you.