F Express Service in Brooklyn (Culver Line)

[Wallyhorse]

That may be true now, however:

If they do in fact plan to have the F go express permanently down the road, then I would look at rebuilding the former station platforms at Bergen Street to make them usable, especially since going to Manhattan, Bergen Street would be the last transfer point between the G and F trains.

[braves]

Most likely, they will use only the FOUR TRACK segment between Jay St & Church Av not stopping at Bergen St but it would be like this:

G to Church Av
F express between Jay St & Church Av
V local between Jay St & Church Av.

[Robert Paniagua]

Maybe they should extend the G line all the way down to Kings Hwy via McDonald Av, where railfans can ride the G route while on sky-high EL, it has happened before, I'm sure they can use the center track for G service while on EL at least to Kings Highway, where there's two island platforms, and the center track to turn G trains back inbound.

[trainbrain]

Read recently that since the rebuilding of the Culver Viaduct, there has been serious consideration to add express service to that line. As of now, the G runs local to Church Avenue, but it doesn't go to Manhattan. People who use the local stations would not want to lose a one seat ride to Manhattan. Here's what I thought would be a practical idea to add express service to the Culver Line, but also not take a one seat ride away from those who use the local stations.

There would be 4 services on the line. The F operating at all times, the G operating at all times, the <F> operating weekdays in the peak direction, and the V would be brought back to run all times except late nights.

The F would be the main service operating at all times on it's current route from Jamaica 179th Street to Coney Island Stillwell Avenue. It would run express from Jay Street to Church Avenue, but skipping Bergen Street so the lower level doesn't need to be rebuilt which reduces costs.

The G would remain unchanged.

The new V would be added running fully local from Forest Hills to Church Avenue all times except late nights. The M would be changed back to its original brown color and original route. At times when the V was not running, the F would run local.

The <F> would run weekdays in the peak direction from Jamaica 179th Street to Coney Island Stillwell Avenue. It would run express south of Church Avenue switching to local at Kings Highway. Even though the express track continues, it is the last station with 3 tracks. To ease congestion at Stillwell Avenue, some local F trains would terminate here and short turn on the express track. The express track could also be used to store extra trains to be used during rush hours.

Does this sound like a plan that could be used to add this service?

[Gerry6309]

Some sort of express service during peak hours would be easy to implement ( the <F> ), run in a similar manner to the <7>. Adding a parallel V however might choke the turn back at Church Av. It would also remove the mid-town connection from the Eastern Division of the BMT, taking service away from a section of Brooklyn on the rebound. The V would parallel the F for its entire length, and encourage local to express transfers, something which the TA prefers to discourage. The present EFMR service on the Queens Line and BDFM service on Sixth Av. provide more options.

Just my quick thoughts.

[trainbrain]

Maybe it would be a better idea to change M service so it splits at Broadway Lafayette street kind of like how the A splits at Rockaway Parkway with one going to Leffert's Blvd and the other going to Far Rockaway. One half would make all local stops to Church Avenue and the other would run to Middle Village like it does now. The M doesn't run as often as some other lines do, so you'd think that service could be enhanced to allow the route to split at Broadway Lafayette Street effectively. This way, the connection from the BMT Eastern Division to Manhattan wouldn't be removed.

[Gerry6309]

Maybe it would be a better idea to change M service so it splits at Broadway Lafayette street kind of like how the A splits at Rockaway Parkway with one going to Leffert's Blvd and the other going to Far Rockaway. One half would make all local stops to Church Avenue and the other would run to Middle Village like it does now. The M doesn't run as often as some other lines do, so you'd think that service could be enhanced to allow the route to split at Broadway Lafayette Street effectively. This way, the connection from the BMT Eastern Division to Manhattan wouldn't be removed.

The M would still need the same number of trains, in 8 x 60 sets. Filling in another route to Church would require a similar number of 8 x 75 or 10 x 60 trains. Where do they come from? You would also have to cut the F during rush hours to make room for those extra trains on 6th Av.

From what I can figure the M runs 8 tph on morning peak and the F runs 12 tph. That makes 20 tph or a train every 3 minutes on the 6th Av. local. There is no room for another 8 tph.

[trainbrain]

The Lexington Avenue Local runs every 2 minutes during rush hour. There is room for a few more trains on the 6th Avenue Local. Add a couple trips to the F during rush hour so the <F> can run. With frequencies of the Lex. Ave. line, the F could run up to 16 tph with 10 going local after Church Avenue and 6 going express. Run 14 tph on the M with 8 going to Church Avenue and 6 going to the BMT Eastern Division.

As for where the cars would come from, they'd come from the R179 order.

[Gerry6309]

The Lexington Avenue Local runs every 2 minutes during rush hour. There is room for a few more trains on the 6th Avenue Local. Add a couple trips to the F during rush hour so the <F> can run. With frequencies of the Lex. Ave. line, the F could run up to 16 tph with 10 going local after Church Avenue and 6 going express. Run 14 tph on the M with 8 going to Church Avenue and 6 going to the BMT Eastern Division.

As for where the cars would come from, they'd come from the R179 order.a

And the R-32s will last forever... Remember, the MTA is not authorized to print money!

[4400Washboard]

An F express would be useful for riders who wish to go from the southern half of the Culver Line towards manhattan or back to brooklyn (Peak direction express service).

[Allan]

Remember, the MTA is not authorized to print money!

No but they certainly spend it as if they did.


Remember the MTA is just a reverse ATM.

[#5 - Dyre Ave]

Read recently that since the rebuilding of the Culver Viaduct, there has been serious consideration to add express service to that line. As of now, the G runs local to Church Avenue, but it doesn't go to Manhattan. People who use the local stations would not want to lose a one seat ride to Manhattan. Here's what I thought would be a practical idea to add express service to the Culver Line, but also not take a one seat ride away from those who use the local stations.

There would be 4 services on the line. The F operating at all times, the G operating at all times, the <F> operating weekdays in the peak direction, and the V would be brought back to run all times except late nights.

The F would be the main service operating at all times on it's current route from Jamaica 179th Street to Coney Island Stillwell Avenue. It would run express from Jay Street to Church Avenue, but skipping Bergen Street so the lower level doesn't need to be rebuilt which reduces costs.

The G would remain unchanged.

The new V would be added running fully local from Forest Hills to Church Avenue all times except late nights. The M would be changed back to its original brown color and original route. At times when the V was not running, the F would run local.

The <F> would run weekdays in the peak direction from Jamaica 179th Street to Coney Island Stillwell Avenue. It would run express south of Church Avenue switching to local at Kings Highway. Even though the express track continues, it is the last station with 3 tracks. To ease congestion at Stillwell Avenue, some local F trains would terminate here and short turn on the express track. The express track could also be used to store extra trains to be used during rush hours.

Does this sound like a plan that could be used to add this service?

I'm sorry, but I don't see this happening. The current orange 6th Ave M is more popular than the old brown Nassau St M was. The V is not coming back to run local to/from Church Ave. Unless the MTA can install a CBTC signal system that can accommodate well over 30 tph on the 6th Ave local tracks. Because that's really the only way you'll be able to run the F, M and V trains on the same tracks on acceptable rush-hour service headways.

There is also no need for a <F> express south of Church Ave if you're planning to run all F service express between Church and Jay. The F stations south of Church have relatively low ridership and those express trains would be running with very few people on board and would force people at the skipped stops to have much longer waits for an F train.

[rr503]

What about having a diamond F which would run express from Jay to Kings Highway, then local to Stillwell?
Local Fs would end at Kings Highway

[railfan365]

What about having a diamond F which would run express from Jay to Kings Highway, then local to Stillwell?
Local Fs would end at Kings Highway

This might actually work quire well - like with the 6 trains in the Bronx.

[rr503]

What about having a diamond F which would run express from Jay to Kings Highway, then local to Stillwell?
Local Fs would end at Kings Highway

This might actually work quire well - like with the 6 trains in the Bronx.

My thoughts exactly