New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Gilbert B Norman
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New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:22 pm

Today's New York Times has a Special Section devoted to the New York Subway as it celebrates its 100th anniversary:

http://www.nytimes.com/nyregion/nyregionspecial

As there are several aritcles and a multimedia photo gallery presently available, request waiver from Forum Rules that a "brief passage" be included in a posting linking to a recognized newssource.

Kamen Rider
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Kamen Rider » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:24 am

it's 106.
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hrfcarl
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by hrfcarl » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:43 pm

While I do not believe this is realated to the NY Times article, this is an interesting web article:

http://www.asylum.com/2010/11/02/the-un ... k4%7C22953

I know there is an issue of safety, but is it possible to say wheather either spot referenced by posters below the article is correct?

pnaw10
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by pnaw10 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:11 pm

hrfcarl wrote:While I do not believe this is realated to the NY Times article, this is an interesting web article:
http://www.asylum.com/2010/11/02/the-un ... k4%7C22953
I know there is an issue of safety, but is it possible to say wheather either spot referenced by posters below the article is correct?
Actually, the NY Times also did an article on this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/01/arts/ ... belly.html

A friend of mine and I have been trying to figure out the location... not that we plan on attempting to see in person (I'm 5+ hours away from the city) but just for the fun of trying to figure out the location. After all, there can only be so many possibilities.

Below the asylum article, one poster said City Hall. But that poster was quickly rebuffed by someone else who said City Hall station is active -- just not for passenger use. Southbound 6 trains use the City Hall loop to become northbound trains.

The NY Times article noted that the location of this "gallery" has no tracks in the beds, and from the photos, you can see the tracks would have dead-ended at this station. There's two reasons why the "original" City Hall station doesn't fit that description.

But there's also the abandoned lower level of the BMT (R/W) City Hall station. A good theory, but I was able to rule this out as well. While the lower level never had signage or wall tiles installed, it DOES have tracks, and those tracks are used as a mini-yard to store trains. On nycsubway.org, there's also a photo of a fenced-off stairway from the upper-level platform, showing that the lower level has lights. The NYT article said that the gallery space had no electricity (artists brought their own lights) and while there were holes in the platforms for stairs or elevators, none were present.

Additionally, because the lower-level tracks were originally supposed to be the ones to continue south, and the upper-level tracks were originally going to terminate there... the upper-level tracks "ramp downgrade" into where the lower-level tracks would have continued south. As a result, the in-station tracks have a gradually-decreasing ceiling, whereas the photos of this gallery space show the trackbeds ending against a flat, full-height wall.

The next poster on the asylum site claims the location is somewhere along the G-line in Brooklyn. But checking the track maps at nycsubway.org, there's no illustration of any abandoned or unbuilt tracks along that line. I haven't had much time to look into that claim any further, but haven't seen anything else (yet) to lend any credibility to the claim.

The NYT article claims the space isn't as far away from the galleries of Chelsea as one might think, but it's hard to tell if this is true, or if it's just a "red herring" to further disguise the location.
.

hrfcarl
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by hrfcarl » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:57 pm

pnaw10 wrote:A friend of mine and I have been trying to figure out the location... not that we plan on attempting to see in person (I'm 5+ hours away from the city) but just for the fun of trying to figure out the location. After all, there can only be so many possibilities.
I agree about the fun of trying to figure out, just afraid of what might happen if spot did get out. Not just someone getting hurt, but some moron deciding to "tag" the spot.

Kamen Rider
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Kamen Rider » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:57 pm

IND Second System; South 4th street station shell. G line @ Broadway, north end.

Hoyt-Schermerhorn type station built perpendiular to the Crosstown line.
only sections actually built was where the active tunnel croses under it. meaning it's not a full sized station.
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n2cbo
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by n2cbo » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:45 am

Kamen Rider wrote:IND Second System; South 4th street station shell. G line @ Broadway, north end.

Hoyt-Schermerhorn type station built perpendiular to the Crosstown line.
only sections actually built was where the active tunnel croses under it. meaning it's not a full sized station.
OK, so if there is no tunnel leading to it, how did anyone get to it??
Am I missing something here?

Fred Rabin
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Fred Rabin » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:33 pm

It's the lower level of the IND 42nd Street Station.
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Fred Rabin
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Fred Rabin » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:34 pm

Oops! 8th Avenue.
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Kamen Rider
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Kamen Rider » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:20 pm

n2cbo wrote:
Kamen Rider wrote:IND Second System; South 4th street station shell. G line @ Broadway, north end.

Hoyt-Schermerhorn type station built perpendiular to the Crosstown line.
only sections actually built was where the active tunnel croses under it. meaning it's not a full sized station.
OK, so if there is no tunnel leading to it, how did anyone get to it??
Am I missing something here?
it's connected to the open Crosstown station on the closed end of the Mezz.

and lower 42nd has mostly been demolished for the 7 line extension.
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Jeff Smith
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:01 pm

DISCLAIMER: This member, and I am sure the owners of railroad.net past, present, and future do not in any way advocate, recommend, or tolerate TRESPASSING, whether or not the line is active or not. Thus, the description of access to this location below is redacted*** by me as poster. It is posted for information purposes only. Posts or pictures of any stories of actual trespass escapades by a member here will be reported for deletion by the moderator or site admins (and I am not a moderator of this forum).

A google search turned this up, which also has links to several other blogs:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-20021990-36.html
Bloggers like Kabak, as well as more general city blog authorities like Jake Dobkin of Gothamist, quickly took on the task of figuring out the station's identity. After eliminating other known abandoned platforms like those at Roosevelt Avenue in Queens and Nevins Street in downtown Brooklyn, they surmised that the "Underbelly Project" station is a sprawling six-track complex in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Williamsburg.

The now-phantom station's construction was stalled first by the Great Depression and then completely snuffed when city planning assumed that the future of Gotham would be centered on the car, not the train--which didn't come true, as New York remains the only U.S. city where over half of households do not own a car, and where it's barely abnormal to meet a middle-class, college-educated thirtysomething who has never learned how to drive. It was intended to be a connecting station to an existing stop along the Crosstown Local line, creating a massive nexus of subway service in a part of Brooklyn that is now, instead, only visited by a single and much-maligned service called the G. ********************************************************************, and soon you're there: no tracks, no exits to the street, no lighting, a series of tubes to nowhere.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-20021 ... z14u4VVu9Q
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

drewh
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Re: New York Times Special Section - The Subway

Post by drewh » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:20 am

This was fascinating. I had no idea so many shell stations were built and the extent of the 2nd Ind system proposals. This is definitely S 4th St station Brooklyn. What a different city we would have if it had all been built.

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