Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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railfan365
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by railfan365 »

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Another advantage of single units is that they are practical for work service, compared to multicar linked sets. R17/21/22s which make many work cars were all single unit cars and the World's Fair R33 single units are used as well. However "paired" Main Line R33s and some World's Fair R36s can also be found in work duty as well.
I've also seen R-40's and R-40M's in work car status - powering garbage trains.

Also, an advantage of singe units is greater flexibility in train length.

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by R36 Combine Coach »

R32s have been occasionally used in trash service.
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railfan365
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by railfan365 »

Since the people in charge of technical spec have been economizing by having linked carset, I've been wondering if there might be a return to using articulated trucks. This has been doen before, including by BRT during and before the 1920's. What this means, for anyone who hasn't encountered the term before, is that there would be 6 trucks supporting 5 cars, with 6 trucks' worth of motors. Between any 2 cars in a group, there would be a shared truck, not just a linkbar.

Kamen Rider
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by Kamen Rider »

the linked sets can be reconfigred mush quicker than a articulated train. Last year, the MTA ran a test of an 11 car train of R160s. the link bar design made the process much easier. The D types were sucessful, but the modern design fit the MTA's needs. The Ds had the own problems. Only the center two trucks had third rail shoes and traction motors. meaning you had three cars worth of weight being shoved around by amount of motors of one normal car. Even a 5 car 142 set, which has 1/2 trailer B cars and full trailer C cars, have more motors. I'm quite sure that 12 adged motors trying to push the weight of a 9 car train over the Manhattan bridge ( a job a normal train entrusts to 32 to 40 motors) helped to damage the train.
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railfan365
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by railfan365 »

Interesting thoughts Kaman. Another way that might be engaged to run trains more cheaply would be to have each train consisting of an electric boxcab locomotive running push-pull to move non-motorized cars, some of which would have a cab so that the train operator could drive from either end and the conductor would have a convenient place to work the doors.

oknazevad
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by oknazevad »

As anyone who has regularly operated or even ridden the commuter systems will tell you, push-pull, even electric push-pull, is a really bad idea when there are many stations spaced close together. The acceleration of push-pull, where only a few axles all at one end are supplying tractive effort, compared to an EMU, where there's at least one powered axle on every car supplying effort, is noticably worse, and that really adds up in stop-start operations, like the subway.

I don't want to sound like an old fart who says things are the way they are bcause they are the way they are. Because that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that these debates and ideas were already decided 100 years ago, and the decisions made then are still the right decisions. There's a reason that EMUs are the standard in rapid transit around the world. They work.
rails > roads

On second thought, let's not go to the NJ Transit Rail forum, 'tis a silly place.

jtr1962
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by jtr1962 »

Locomotive driven trains simply won't work well for any system where stops are less than a few miles apart. That's basically the entire subway system, including express runs. Any cost savings would be erased by drastically decreased ridership due to average speeds falling into the single digits. The subway needs to accelerate at 2.5 mphps just to maintain the relatively slow schedules in existence now. That's impossible with a locomotive-driven train.

For a great example of why locomotive-driven consists really don't work all that well in operations with many stops, just go across the river to NJ Transit. Many of their schedules ended up being drastically lengthened once they went from EMUs to locomotive-driven consists. And the stops are a lot farther apart than in the NYC subway.

railfan365
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by railfan365 »

To offer a further update on the turnover in the NYC subwat fleet, all R-160's ordered are now in service. As to the old cars, all 240 surviviing R-32's are running on the C line, out of 207th Street as of June 30. As to the whereabouts of the R-44's, 63 remain in service on Staten Island, and only 40 in the subway. The 40 are all on the A and C while some of the R-46's get SMS and R-32's get emergency HVAC repairs. All R-44's are due for retirement this year, as enough of the other cars come back online.

Head-end View
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by Head-end View »

Thanks for the update. Once again I'm getting old too soon. I still remember my first ride on a new R-44 on the "A" train in about 1974, and wondering about that weird full-width cab.........I had no idea that day, how bleak the future would be........ :(

And you say all R-160's are now in service, correct? How many total, about 1700?

railfan365
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by railfan365 »

Head-end View wrote:Thanks for the update. Once again I'm getting old too soon. I still remember my first ride on a new R-44 on the "A" train in about 1974, and wondering about that weird full-width cab.........I had no idea that day, how bleak the future would be........ :(

And you say all R-160's are now in service, correct? How many total, about 1700?
Close, Head-End. 1,662.

Robert Paniagua
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Re: Can we have some R-32 fantrips?

Post by Robert Paniagua »

They should have some of those R32s out on the Rockaway A or in the Rockaway Park Shuttle or one R32 trainset on the Culver F (which I already experienced)
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