Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Think twice
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:11 pm
Location: Marine Park, Brooklyn, NY

Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by Think twice »

Hello all,

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I posted this on SubChat and thought I'd share.
Image
Now this is a long-term plan. Not even the IND Second System was this robust. It was drawn up by then Chief Engineer Daniel L. Turner. As far as personal preference, I like the Nostrand Line going across Sheepshead Bay and on to Coney Island. The plans for Staten Island (upper right-hand corner) were the most ambitious. Not only do those Narrows tunnels feed into trunk lines under Brooklyn's 2nd and 3rd Avenues, but another three go to Bayonne and along the bulk-head line of New Jersey. I have more details on the plans and links to the original NY Times articles on my new blog (see below). Enjoy.

L'mont
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:40 pm

Re: Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by L'mont »

Amazing to think how different some neighborhoods would be had this come to fruition. Riverdale? That's just one example, though I'd love to have seen a line across upper manhattan somewhere.....

Think twice
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:11 pm
Location: Marine Park, Brooklyn, NY

Re: Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by Think twice »

Amazing to think how different some neighborhoods would be had this come to fruition. Riverdale?
IMO Robert Moses must have poached ideas for some of his highway routes from this one.

TREnecNYP

Re: Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by TREnecNYP »

Think twice wrote:
Amazing to think how different some neighborhoods would be had this come to fruition. Riverdale?
IMO Robert Moses must have poached ideas for some of his highway routes from this one.
Wouldn't be the first time highway people "borrowed" routes plotted out a hundred years earlier by railroad engineers.....

- A

jtr1962
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:42 pm
Location: Flushing, NY

Re: Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by jtr1962 »

A pity it wasn't built. Where I live might have looked way different. And likely there would be a lot fewer cars as well.

Jeff Smith
Site Admin
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Re: Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by Jeff Smith »

I like some of the Bronx Lines:

-An apparent extension of the Third Av El in the Bronx along Gun Hill Rd to the Boston Post Rd and then North to Pelham might have saved the Bronx portion of the line later.

-Along that "train" of thought, an extension of the 9th Av El beyond River Av and the Jerome Av line might have saved that old spur which was gone after the Polo Grounds demolition, I think. At least, I think that was what was left of the 9th Av El/shutte. It's hard to tell. A line along Randald Av would be useful; maybe not the spur to Queens.

-I like the line along Morris and Tremont. I'm guessing that was either an extension of the 2nd Av El, or a new 1st/York Av El? Tremont is a crucial artery in the Bronx; an extension west/left would have been also useful.

-I really don't know what to make of the spur off of the 6.
Next stop, Willoughby
~el Jefe ("Jeff Smith Rules") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

neroden
Posts: 1175
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: Map of the Dual Contracts ''Second System'' from 1920

Post by neroden »

Think twice wrote:Now this is a long-term plan.
Wow. Never accuse modern railfans of making up fantasy maps -- now this is a fantasy map!

*Three* crossings of the Verazzano Narrows? *Five* lines through Staten Island? This seems a bit like a development scheme for Queens and SI. There seems to be some intent to achieve a certain minimum "density of the rail network" throughout the outer boroughs, regardless of existing population. This is actually a reasonably admirable goal in some ways -- get the rail lines built *before* the areas were completely built up, and the construction is a lot cheaper -- but it had no chance of being funded.

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