An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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MACTRAXX
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An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Post by MACTRAXX » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:13 pm

Everyone: Does anyone know what PATH plans to do with the 20-year old (800 series) PA-4 cars when the day comes that PATH has enough
PA-5 cars to replace them?
Does PATH plan to use them in rush hours similar to how the 1958-vintage H&M Class K cars were used in their last years?
Will they be retired in favor of an all PA-5 operation as I suspect?

I was thinking about this: Selling the entire group to the Chicago Transit Authority to be used as high-capacity cars allowing
their 1970 - vintage 2200 Series Budd cars with their bus-type "Blinker" doors to be retired.
The CTA could obtain a group of cars with at least 15-20 years of life left for a fraction of the cost of brand-new cars.
The CTA is looking to procure cars with "bowling-alley" type side seats to be used during rush hours on high-ridership lines.
The Kawasaki PA-4 cars could fit the bill here allowing the CTA to place them into service with little modification since I
believe they are close if not the same as dimensions of CTA equipment.
Small modifications-like creating a full-width cab option-would be necessary here.

Is there anyone knowledgable about what PATH plans on doing with the PA-4 cars upon retirement - which may be still years away? I would rather see this instead of the cars being scrapped - which would be a waste in my opinion.
I am also posting this idea in the CTA forum section.

Thanks to all ideas and views in advance - MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

Fan Railer
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Re: An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Post by Fan Railer » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:58 pm

CTA cars are 48 ft while PATH cars are 51 ft long.
PATH cars are also too wide for the CTA system, so that negates the interoperability proposal.
the PA-4's will probably be saved for Work service, seeing as they won't be compatable to the CBTC system that is going to be installed to increase service along with the option order of PA-5's.

plus, the CTA is getting the 5000 series soon, so why add old cars to the roster to replace older cars when you are already getting new cars to replace those old cars?

MACTRAXX
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Re: An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Post by MACTRAXX » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:19 pm

FR: Thanks for the reply - first: Will the three feet lengthwise difference amount to the PA-4 cars making the 90 degree (and sometimes a little more) curves in the Chicago Loop?
Second: I discovered that the PA-4 cars weigh 69,000 pounds-perhaps too heavy for some CTA L structures.
CTA cars all have a floor width of 8'8" compared with the PA-4 floor width of 9'4" - the same as CTA car window level width.
Third: How many work cars will PATH convert from PA-4's when they indeed become available?
Would any other rail system be able to use them for service? It would be a shame to see the PA-4s go to waste!
MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

Fan Railer
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Re: An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Post by Fan Railer » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:18 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:FR: Thanks for the reply - first: Will the three feet lengthwise difference amount to the PA-4 cars making the 90 degree (and sometimes a little more) curves in the Chicago Loop?
Second: I discovered that the PA-4 cars weigh 69,000 pounds-perhaps too heavy for some CTA L structures.
CTA cars all have a floor width of 8'8" compared with the PA-4 floor width of 9'4" - the same as CTA car window level width.
Third: How many work cars will PATH convert from PA-4's when they indeed become available?
Would any other rail system be able to use them for service? It would be a shame to see the PA-4s go to waste!
MACTRAXX
well, realistically, the only other system that can operate the PA-4's would be the closest: NYCS. though they would also be used for work service, as the A division has plenty of cars at the moment.
PATH would probably save only, at most, 12-18 cars for work service, seeing that they would replace the 6 existing work cars.

depends on the clearance issues in the CTA tunnels. PATH itself has several very sharp curves (a minimum turn radius of 115 feet), so i don't know for sure.

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:17 pm

MBTA could on the Red/Blue/Orange lines-remember the Hawker Siddeley cars used on the Blue and Orange lines are derivatives of the PA3 at 48' and 65' respectively. However the Blue Line is receiving new cars and the Orange will in 2015.
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MACTRAXX
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Re: An idea concerning the Kawasaki PA-4 cars...

Post by MACTRAXX » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:29 pm

R36: Good idea concerning the MBTA - I could picture these PA-4s being used on the Orange Line adding orange reflective stripes to them and perhaps with a minimum of modification. The MBTA Orange Line might be a good fit for them!
MACTRAXX
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