15th street shaft

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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OportRailfan
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15th street shaft

Post by OportRailfan »

I know in the tunnels in the vicinity of Pavonia I believe, there's a lighted sign in the tunnels that say exit to street.

Is this the 15th street shaft that I think I've heard about? any idea as to the physical location of the caissons from street level before and after pavonia?
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Terry Kennedy
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by Terry Kennedy »

OportRailfan wrote:I know in the tunnels in the vicinity of Pavonia I believe, there's a lighted sign in the tunnels that say exit to street.

Is this the 15th street shaft that I think I've heard about? any idea as to the physical location of the caissons from street level before and after pavonia?
The "Exit to Street" sign is at the powerhouse, south (toward Grove Street or Exchange Place) of Pavonia/Newport, and is in both directions.

The "15th Street Shaft" is in the westbound tunnel before it splits to head to either Hoboken or Pavonia/Newport.

OportRailfan
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by OportRailfan »

Terry Kennedy wrote:
The "15th Street Shaft" is in the westbound tunnel before it splits to head to either Hoboken or Pavonia/Newport.
ok cuz I can see a very small building in line with 15th street on River Dr. South and then another bigger building south of it in that empty yard along the waterfront.
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CarterB
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by CarterB »

Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!

OportRailfan
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by OportRailfan »

I don't think so.

I marked Point N as the 15th St. Shaft

http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=40.73149,-74 ... ounty%20NJ
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CarterB
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by CarterB »

Yes, I concur your map marked "N" is where I think the shaft is.
Anyone that can confirm?
Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!

Terry Kennedy
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by Terry Kennedy »

CarterB wrote:Yes, I concur your map marked "N" is where I think the shaft is.
Anyone that can confirm?
Sorry for the delay in responding - I had to get some drawings from the vault and scan them.

I'm not going to confirm or deny the location of any operable access points. If I post current information, I get complaints due to security concerns. However, as a result of an agreement about that, I can post anything that's in a historical document, no matter how rare.

With that in mind, I present some scans of parts of Haskin's original drawings, which were loaned to Burr for his 1885 book, Tunneling Under the Hudson River.

Image

Image

Image

You can click on each of those for a larger picture (warning: 2048-pixel-wide JPEGs).

There aren't any street names on that part of those drawings, but the pier locations are shown in detail.

By the way, for a shaft you can see, walk south along the waterfront from the Exchange Place station. Just at the waterline (depending on tide), you'll see a large round iron cylinder sticking out of the shore, with a concrete cap on it. You're actually looking at the outside of a vertical shaft formed with the same type of ring segments used for the downtown tunnels (except smaller). That was where they removed all of the material excavated to build the Exchange Place station. Since the Pennsylvania already had a terminal on top, they couldn't just dig down right there. If you look at the wall of the Exchange Place station (WTC-bound platform, near the east end, on the far wall) you'll see a pair of stainless steel doors. That's the other end of that shaft (it runs roughly horizontal until it meets the vertical shaft outside).

CarterB
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by CarterB »

That would sure have put the shaft right up next to where the Holland Tunnel was built later!!
Last edited by CarterB on Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!

OportRailfan
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by OportRailfan »

That's the way I perceive it...but not the 15th street shaft.

The way it seems, I think the junction from Pavonia to 33rd street and Pavonia to Hoboken is in very close proximity to the Holland Tunnel, which of course was built later
Dock & Q: Last of a dying breed

TREnecNYP

Re: 15th street shaft

Post by TREnecNYP »

OportRailfan wrote:That's the way I perceive it...but not the 15th street shaft.

The way it seems, I think the junction from Pavonia to 33rd street and Pavonia to Hoboken is in very close proximity to the Holland Tunnel, which of course was built later
The holland tunnel pair look like they go underneath the PATH tunnel, the caisson for 33/hob/jsq is a bit to the north of the shaft in question. One thing that i'm really curious about is how the tunnel and the slip are related, is the outside of the tunnel down there, or is there soil between?

- A

Terry Kennedy
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by Terry Kennedy »

TREnecNYP wrote:The holland tunnel pair look like they go underneath the PATH tunnel, the caisson for 33/hob/jsq is a bit to the north of the shaft in question. One thing that i'm really curious about is how the tunnel and the slip are related, is the outside of the tunnel down there, or is there soil between?
The Holland Tunnel approaches go over the top (within a few feet) of the H&M / PATH Caisson # 3. The main body of the caisson is between the north edge of the south Holland Tunnel bore and the centerline of the north Holland Tunnel bore. There is less than 2 feet of gap between the bottom of the Holland Tunnel and the top of the Caisson. Looking at the first image below (click on each image for a larger view - this site is rejecting images for being more than 800 pixels), you can see that neither Holland Tunnel ramp has any below-grade drainage until it passes the Caisson.

Image
Image

OportRailfan
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by OportRailfan »

Ok, that picture really clearly shows the layout of things. The 15th street shaft is part of/related to Caisson #2.

Also its kind of funny that the Port Authority came to own/operate both facilities.
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Terry Kennedy
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Re: 15th street shaft

Post by Terry Kennedy »

OportRailfan wrote:Also its kind of funny that the Port Authority came to own/operate both facilities.
You'd think that that would let them come to some agreement to stop using Caisson #3 as a drain for the Holland Tunnel - that's why it is always wet down there.

TREnecNYP

Re: 15th street shaft

Post by TREnecNYP »

Doesn't help that the river is x number of feet away, not even 50.

What i find fascinating is the diagrams of the excavation of both the shaft and the tunnel connecting to it. Perhaps the PA could paint it a color less bomb-shelter-ish? It really looks like someone designed the whole thing during the cuban missile crisis.

- A

Terry Kennedy
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:24 pm
Location: NYC

Re: 15th street shaft

Post by Terry Kennedy »

TREnecNYP wrote:Doesn't help that the river is x number of feet away, not even 50.
Tunnel A is 6 courses of brick (no rings) and it doesn't leak. :-D

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