Dogs On The Subway

[reign16]

That is an incredible a dog in a sub ways... I think the dog or any animal are restricted in the sub way?



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[reign16]

That is an incredible a dog in a sub ways... I think the dog or any animal are restricted in the sub way?



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[lyonscj]

Look, I know the people at transit who make these kinds of decisions. they've got a rather long list of things you can't do on the subway, why are you so dam sure that they will listen to you and make one huge exception for your needs.

Because it's not just me, and it's not just my needs, and I'm hardly suggesting that I alone am going to get this done. But sooner or later, it'll happen. I probably won't even play a significant role.

they ticketed a pregant lady who sat down on the steps.

So your point is that they're assholes?

I could get a ticket if I put my bag on the seat next to me.

True, though tens of thousands of people do it every day without getting ticketed. I have no problem with people taking up seats on a crowded rush hour train being ticketed for that. But we're not talking about rush hour here.

Sure, "boston does it", but that doesn't automaticly mean it will work here.

Boston, Seattle (on buses and streetcars), Paris, London, Rome, Berlin, Melbourne, Toronto--but hey, just because it works EVERYWHERE IT'S TRIED doesn't mean it'll work here, because New York is the worst city in the world.

Was that your point?

The MTA is the text book definition of murphy's law. anything that can go wrong, not only will go wrong, but already has gone wrong. Just about every other city in the country has mainline OPTO or ATO, but here the union throws a tantrum. If they did change the rules, all it would take is one incedent and the whole thing would go up in smoke. If the doors shut on the dogs' tail, I don't think he would take it very well.

Is there anyone here who knows how to make an argument?

People like you are just one sub section of society.

Pet owners? Yeah, just a measily 63% of the population.

everyone can't have everything they want because there would be some people who would be left out.

Yeah, like pet owners. Now.

simple example, being near some types of dogs gets my allergies to flare up.

We've been over this. Dogs and cats are already allowed on the trains. Being in a well-ventilated bag isn't going to stop pet dander from getting into the air. It's obviously not a problem. Anybody that sensitive should not be on the trains.

why should I have to suffer becuase you want something.

Why should I be denied something because you're a hypochondriac?

I know what you're going to say next "you don't have to be in the car with the dog".

I was going to say something more like "How does someone like you even want to BE in a train?"

I might also point out that the converse is just as much a vaild point, the dog doesn't have to be in the car with me. more so if I go on first and was getting off after. there are people out there who would be much more upset if they saw you get on the subway with your dog then I have gotten. Face it; It's never going to happen.

Face it--it already is happening. Dogs and cats are allowed on the subway in bags. Leashed dogs are allowed on the Metro North. We keep getting stronger and stronger. And most people don't feel the way you do about it.

If you're so sure this is a non-starter, why are you so worried?

[lyonscj]

And what are the rules for a cat ???

Exactly the same as the rules for a dog, except there's no such thing as seeing eye cats, so there's no exception there.

Dogs and cats are allowed in carriers. I've often seen people transporting their cats on trains and buses, in well-ventilated bags, and sometimes even in their laps--I'm very VERY allergic to cats. It always makes me happy to see them, and I've never had any problem.

Cats are different from dogs in one very important respect--most of them hate to travel. Dogs LOVE adventure. They thrive on new experiences, and they'd always rather go out with their people than be left at home. Dogs are socially adept creatures, who adapt to whatever situation they find themselves in--in Moscow, they've even figured out how to ride the trains by themselves. It's happened elsewhere as well. Somebody on the MBTA boards here recounted how he used to see a dog riding the Boston T by himself.

It's just plain nonsense to stick them in a bag when they'd be far better behaved and at ease on a leash.

[Kamen Rider]

I can play that routine two. It's just plain nonses to let the loose on the subway, when they are perfectly safe, and the riding public is prefctly safe, with them in carry cases.

[RearOfSignal]

According to MNR rules we have to allow passengers to bring seeing eye monkeys and pigs. Seriously, the BoR says monkeys and pigs are ok.

[lyonscj]

I can play that routine two. It's just plain nonses to let the loose on the subway, when they are perfectly safe, and the riding public is prefctly safe, with them in carry cases.

You can play it, but apparently you can't SPELL it.

Nobody's talking about 'letting them loose'--we're talking about well-behaved dogs on a leash. Most dogs aren't small enough to fit in carriers that can be taken onboard a train. And the dogs are going to feel much more at ease outside a bag--where people can enjoy them.

You say this is just about what I want, but in fact I've seen the opposite is true--dogs on the trains make people feel better, more relaxed. They have a calming effect. They also stimulate social behavior, get people out of their shells. They would also make the trains safer after hours--nobody's getting mugged on a subway car where there's a big dog present--no matter how friendly he or she may be.

When I've brought my dogs onto the subway, I've only gotten positive responses from people. And nobody has ever gone off to report us to a conductor. And absolutely nothing bad has happened. Oh, and nobody's tail got caught in the doors. Sheesh, you think dogs are as stupid as people?

[Kamen Rider]

the prupose of the New York City Subway is the transportation of people. other people have to use it and they might no be comfotable with your dog onboard. this is a democracy, other people have rights, and they might see a dog free subway ride as one of them.

[lyonscj]

the prupose of the New York City Subway is the transportation of people.

That's the purpose of every transit system, including the Metro North, which allows leashed dogs--and if the MTA subway system is so different, why do they allow animals in carriers, as well as assistance animals?

other people have to use it and they might no be comfotable with your dog onboard.

Some might be a lot more uncomfortable with certain types of people--actually, there were laws that forced certain people to ride in separate cars, and the backs of buses, to protect the feelings of certain other people, and most people didn't think those laws could ever be changed, either.

So to those who say the rules regarding dogs on trains and buses can never be changed, I respond--yes they can.

this is a democracy, other people have rights, and they might see a dog free subway ride as one of them.

And you get to decide that for them, this being a Democracy and all?

[Kamen Rider]

assistance animals are required by law, and that's as far as your gonna get. If you have to use the subway with your dogs THAT much, I'd recomned faking blindness. Cal train rsevers the right to throw service aninamls off the train, so don't assume things are all in your favor.

[lyonscj]

I'm guessing pretty nearly all transit systems reserve the right to throw ANYBODY off a train, regardless of species. Including you.

[Erie-Lackawanna]

Y'all have gone in so many circles I'm getting dizzy. There really isn't anything of value left to be said, as I see it.

Isn't there a moderator on this forum with a lock function available???? Sheesh, on the Amtrak forum they would have locked it after the second post, and put a rule in the forum charter about it being a forbidden topic!

(Yes, yes...I know. This isn't the Amtrak forum. Thank goodness.)

Jim

[lyonscj]

Actually, I've raised this topic at a number of different forums, transit-related and otherwise, and it's never been locked.

And why did you think it would be constructive to say "Let's lock this thread down because it's run too long" after it had been inactive for several days? Just when we thought it was out, you drag it back in.

[FRIEDCHIKKIN]

That is an incredible a dog in a sub ways... I think the dog or any animal are restricted in the sub way?

ONLY Service Animals are allowed on MTA NYCT property-animals for "psychological/emotional services" are not considered Service Animals by the NYCT. All non-Service Animals must fit [and BE] in an enclosed container specifically manufactured for such animal and must be accommodated on the lap of said owner. The only other exception are animals being trained by Service Animal trainers with readily-presentable license to do so.

That being said, it's really the prerogative of the police you might run into to fine and/or eject you from NYCT property...

[Port Jervis]

This isn't preduidce and it's most certanily not idioidc.

::sigh::

For one, This isn't just transit policy, None of the Railroads (and NJT for that matter) allow animals unless it can be put in a container.

Wrong. The Metro North allows large dogs on a leash, and has for many years. I've taken two different dogs on the Hudson Line. The conductors take our tickets and smile at our dog.

And again, the Boston T allows dogs on a leash, and so do the Seattle streetcars and buses (if you pay an additional fare).

What if Spot has to use the restroom while he's on the train?

You don't know very much about dogs, do you? This is the problem. People don't understand that a housebroken dog doesn't relieve himself indoors, and a train is definitely perceived as indoors. In any event, maybe you've never ridden the NYC Subway? If you ever see urine on the floor, it's not a dog who left it there.

A bus driver once wrote that on a cold day (meaning the heat was on), a woman brings a cat onto a bus in a box. the cat took a leak and the bus smelled so bad a dispacter fainted.

So? Cats and dogs are allowed on most subways, buses, and commuter trains in containers. You want to change that rule, on the basis of a handful of incidents? So when are they going to ban toddlers?

There is also the City and state health codes.

Irrelevant. Dogs are no more unhealthy on a leash than they are in a bag. And people won't be catching flu bugs from them, but sneezing wheezing people are still allowed onboard.

It can be argued that Seattle, Boston and Toronto are not being dog freindly, but are much more interested in atracting the person, posably covinceing them to use their servecs more often if they can bring an animal.

What a great argument! And in fact, it's pretty much the argument I'm making--only let's turn it to a financial advantage for a cash-strapped transit system. Which would people like less--having to share offpeak trains with a few friendly mutts, or having a lot fewer trains to share with each other?

On a New Haven express last Christmas Eve there were at least 10 dogs in just the car I was in alone. One was a Newfoundland. No one said a thing. A well behaved dog, even if it's technically illegal will normally not incur any wrath from anyone except a rectalopening cop.