Newark-33rd Street direct service?

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Amtrak7
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Newark-33rd Street direct service?

Post by Amtrak7 »

Once, there was a direct PATH NWK-33 line. Are there any plans to revive it? Temporarily reinitiating it when NJT/AMTK is cross honoring NWK-NYP may be helpful.

henry6

YOU KNOW I DON"T

Post by henry6 »

You know I don't know if I remember a Newark-33rd St. service. I do recall the 33rd to Journal Sq. service as always being there. But I would think that the old PRR would not have wanted that service to Newark in competition with thier own trains from Penn.

Allan
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Re: Newark-33

Post by Allan »

NWK-33 service was in place from just after 9/11/2001 to when the Exchange Place station was reopened.

The idea of resurrecting it during periods when NJT is crosshonoring tickets sounds good but I don't think that the track capacity at Newark can handle the extra traffic.

Tom V
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:40 pm

Re: Newark-33

Post by Tom V »

As mentioned NWK-33rd street was put in place when the World Trade Center was destroyed, thus cutting off Lower Manhattan from New Jersey (by rail). The thousands of commuters to Lower Manhattan had to find another route, some went by ferry but the vast majority took NJ Transit trains to NY Penn and NYCT Subways to Lower Manhattan. All those additional riders to mid-town overwhelmed NJ Transit thus the Port Authority initiated NWK-33rd street to try to alleviate some of that capacity.

henry6

AND THEREFORE

Post by henry6 »

And therefore I don't see any reason, or capacity or equipment, to resurrect the service.

ryanov
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Re: Newark-33

Post by ryanov »

I was told by a friend who was on the PATH advisory committee that the reason that the other line terminates at JSQ is due to hours of service or something like that (adds too much time and they need more staff to run the other way). Could be.
|=| R. Novosielski |=|

TREnecNYP

Re: Newark-33

Post by TREnecNYP »

There is indeed a setting on the route indicator for 33rd/nwk trains on at least one PA car i've been in, as well as 33rd/wtc, hob/nwk and a few other combinations.

- A

nyrmetros
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Re: Newark-33

Post by nyrmetros »

When the PATH system was first built was there ever direct service from 33 to NWK and WTC to NWK ?

It just seems odd that we have to transfer at JSQ when the tracks run there directly.....

OportRailfan
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Re: Newark-33

Post by OportRailfan »

nyrmetros wrote:when the tracks run there directly.....
What exactly do you mean by that, there are only 2 tracks that run west to Newark after they diverge after Kearny pocket track.
Dock & Q: Last of a dying breed

Allan
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Location: Bronx, NY

Re: Newark-33

Post by Allan »

nyrmetros wrote:When the PATH system was first built was there ever direct service from 33 to NWK and WTC to NWK ?

It just seems odd that we have to transfer at JSQ when the tracks run there directly.....
When the Hudson & Manhattan RR was opened in 1908 the service was from Hoboken to 19th St and then 23rd St (extended to 33rd St a couple of years later.

As the various lines were added in the following years trains ran to a station called Manhattan Transfer where people could change to a Pennsylvania RR train. In 1912 the H & M was extended to a terminal in at Park Place in Newark. The current connection to Newark Penn was added in 1937 when the Manahttan Transfer station was closed.

PATH didn't come along until 1962 when the Port Authority of NY & NJ took over operation from the bankrupt H & M.

It is very possible that at some point in the early history of the H & M that they did run some service from 33rd St directly to Newark. Since service in that area was in joint service with the Pennsylvania RR is it totally possible. But it appears from some old photos that I have seen, that service from 33rd St generally terminated at Summit Av (now Journal Square).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Autho ... ans-Hudson
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/path/hmhistory.html
http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubesenglish/ (click on "lines" on this page when it comes up).

nyrmetros
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Re: Newark-33

Post by nyrmetros »

Thanx for the info. I'm new to riding the PATH system, but doing it a lot now for Red Bull Arena. I understand that Newark only has 2 tracks, but it just seems like they could alternate train service at NWK between going to WTC and 33rd. I'm ceertainly no expert on it, just trying to figure it out.

OportRailfan
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Re: Newark-33

Post by OportRailfan »

nyrmetros wrote:Thanx for the info. I'm new to riding the PATH system, but doing it a lot now for Red Bull Arena. I understand that Newark only has 2 tracks, but it just seems like they could alternate train service at NWK between going to WTC and 33rd. I'm ceertainly no expert on it, just trying to figure it out.
I'll offer you the fact, that the only time there was NWK-33rd St service, was when there was no Exchange Place or WTC service, following 9/11.

So from September 2001, to June 29, 2003, Exchange Place was closed, and there was that service.
Dock & Q: Last of a dying breed

Allan
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Location: Bronx, NY

Re: Newark-33

Post by Allan »

nyrmetros wrote:Thanx for the info. I'm new to riding the PATH system, but doing it a lot now for Red Bull Arena. I understand that Newark only has 2 tracks, but it just seems like they could alternate train service at NWK between going to WTC and 33rd. I'm ceertainly no expert on it, just trying to figure it out.
With the exception of the 5 track station at WTC, the 4 track station at Journal Square and the 3 track terminals at Hoboken and 33rd St, PATH is all 2 tracks on the operating portion (also multi tracks just north of Exchange Place for a short distance). Alternate NWK-33 service sounds good but the passengers to/from the WTC would suffer for it.

It would probably cause service backups on the HOB-33 and JSQ-33.

OportRailfan
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Re: Newark-33

Post by OportRailfan »

Plus there's the fact that you don't have to turn trains at WTC - loop tracks.

I'm not sure how long it takes them to turn trains at NWK, but they have to go down the ramp from Platform H, and either go out into the yard through the flyover or the track sanwiched by tracks 1 & 2. Then they have to change ends, and set everything up. Definitely more time consuming.
Dock & Q: Last of a dying breed

nyrmetros
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:59 am

Re: Newark-33

Post by nyrmetros »

OportRailfan wrote:Plus there's the fact that you don't have to turn trains at WTC - loop tracks.

I'm not sure how long it takes them to turn trains at NWK, but they have to go down the ramp from Platform H, and either go out into the yard through the flyover or the track sanwiched by tracks 1 & 2. Then they have to change ends, and set everything up. Definitely more time consuming.
There's no interlocking between Newark Penn and the bridge? Wouldn't that have had made sense to build ??

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