Hell Gate line ROW: Room for subway tracks?

[F23A4]

If not subway, how about an extension of the NJT NEC or M&E to at least New Rochelle?

I can't imagine a Trenton Express (NJT) originating from New Rochelle. Also, cant imagine MNCR and Amtrak going along with it.

[DogBert]

Adding a 5th trackway sounds nice, but....

There's only space for 4 tracks on the bridge. The main span has two outer portions on either side that might support subway cars, but the viaduct would need to be expanded. That wouldn't be a problem over randalls island, but in queens? Forget it. they'd have to bulldoze homes along the space that would soon be under the bridge, and if you think anyone is going to give up a half million dollar home in a centrally located low crime neighborhood without a fight, you're out of your mind. (to be fair though, at least here in astoria, I don't hear complaints about the occasional loud freight at night, etc. the bridge is pretty well accepted and even embraced by the 'hood, but any thought of expanding it would seriously not go over at all)

We're also talking about one long, long bridge viaduct here. I don't even want to estimate what it would cost to widen it. If I recall right, it cost them around $50 million in the mid 90's just to paint and maintain it imagine the cost of adding a track or two to the entire length of it?! We're talking billions here, easily.

I really don't even see CSX allowing passenger service on their track. Conrail struggled with the line back when LIRR was doing it's best to cut it's freight service at the throat in the 90s. CSX on the other hand has seen a decent upswing in traffic, enough to run 6 days a week, despite competing with CP, and NS via the cross harbor. Maybe, MAYBE they would do it if one of the commuter agencies upgraded the track for them, but then again, the line does have a decent grade on it, and there's enough occasions where they struggle to get the train up to the bridge. Factor in a little rain or snow, and stalling happens. Commuters potientally delayed, headaches... they'd have to add more power to the trains, which isn't high on their priority list I'd imagine (most common engines used are SD40's still in their conrail paint, not exactly the newest of the fleet...)

Despite all of amtrak's trains, they could squeeze in some commuter runs on their tracks, but only after LIRR gives up slots into penn station - IF that ever happens, even after ESA opens.

Running the freight at night? Try that and you'll get residents around Fresh Pond NIMBYing out of their heads. They already complain about NY&A... (though why they live by a yard is obviously a whole other arguement).

[GP38]

Running the freight at night? Try that and you'll get residents around Fresh Pond NIMBYing out of their heads. They already complain about NY&A... (though why they live by a yard is obviously a whole other arguement).

ALl what you said is true. As for Glendale near the FP yard? Those people would NEVER allow any kind of increase in traffic on the line. Back when they were rebuilding the Harold interlocking, and they had to reroute all the Hunterspoint AVe diesels to LIC via the Montauk branch through Glendale, the Glendale residents literally threw themselves across the tracks in protest, and that was only going to be for a summer! Forget about permanent increases, especially at night.
It amazes me because these people MOVED there over their own free will, and the yard has always been an active yard, even in the lowpoint of LIRR freight in the late 80's and early 90's. They wonder why the house may have been slightly cheaper than the rest, and then complain when they have the nerve to move trains on the tracks that had been there long before the houses were.

[JayMan]

Adding a 5th trackway sounds nice, but....

There's only space for 4 tracks on the bridge. The main span has two outer portions on either side that might support subway cars, but the viaduct would need to be expanded. That wouldn't be a problem over randalls island, but in queens? Forget it. they'd have to bulldoze homes along the space that would soon be under the bridge, and if you think anyone is going to give up a half million dollar home in a centrally located low crime neighborhood without a fight, you're out of your mind. (to be fair though, at least here in astoria, I don't hear complaints about the occasional loud freight at night, etc. the bridge is pretty well accepted and even embraced by the 'hood, but any thought of expanding it would seriously not go over at all)

We're also talking about one long, long bridge viaduct here. I don't even want to estimate what it would cost to widen it. If I recall right, it cost them around $50 million in the mid 90's just to paint and maintain it imagine the cost of adding a track or two to the entire length of it?! We're talking billions here, easily.

But, no subway service would be anywhere near the brigde. The subway tracks would be the in Amtrak ROW from West Farms Sq to Co-op City only.

[JayMan]

Having just come back from NYC and after getting a look at the Amtrak line in the Bronx, I can see that there is definitely room for more tracks. I planned to snap some photos but didn't get a camera up and running till just before coming home.

The north (west) side of the ROW has one track and between those two there is a large gap suitable for at least two more tracks, then the next track which Amtrak uses, then a smaller gap before the eastern most track (presumably the freight track) which may or may not have room for one more track. This was all in the vicinity of Eastchester Rd/Williamsbridge Rd.

Two more tracks can be added to the western (north) side in between the two tracks Amtrak presently uses, the western tracks can be used for a subway line while Amtrak can keep the middle tracks and everyone should be happy.