Removal of Subway-Railroad Connections

[GP38]

Which connection do you mean? There was a BMT-BRT connection on an el over Chestnut Street that connected the LIRR with what is now the J line. LIRR trains ran off the Atlantic branch, over Chestnut Street, and onto the Jamaica line. The LIRR then ran over the Broadway El, and terminated at the Chambers Street station. This happened in the 1900's and 1910's. I am not sure what kind of equipment the LIRR used for this service, but it ran a rapid transit like service on Atlantic Ave at the time, so it must have been whatever they used on the Atantic line.

[Wdobner]

The R44SI cars are not FRA compatible, they're FRA waivered. They had their window glazings replaced with FRA compatible lexan or something, and that's the extent of the modifications AFAIK. Structurally they're still R44s, same as the R44s on the A train, just in slightly better shape. SIRT does not interchange with freight railroads, yet remains under the control of the FRA for purely historical reasons. Given that, the FRA let NYC get away with relatively few changes to the cars in order to get them operating on the system.

By the same token, neither Baltimore's LRT cars, PATH's cars, nor NJT's Riverline cars are FRA compatible. They're all operated under a waiver from the FRA saying that in lieu of a beefed up body other precautions have been taken that satisfy the FRA's requirements, be they time-share of track, engineer training for the T/O, or other things.

And yes, Trucks and Cars do share the highway, I believe that was the point of ChuChuBob's statement. A sub-1000lb compact car can share the road with a 70,000lb truck, yet a 115,000lb LRV cannot share track with a 4000ton road freight. And keep in mind there's absolutely nothing to keep the truck and car separated except the presumed lane positions, which are purely up to the drivers to maintain. At least with a train there's the track to keep everything nice and ordered.

[Otto Vondrak]

http://www.all-science-fair-projects.co ... nd_Railway

In 1971 the former Staten Island Rapid Transit Railway Company was acquired from its parent Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, and became an MTA subsidiary for purposes of operation and maintenance; in March, 1973, new R44 cars - the same as the newest cars then in use on the subway lines in the other boroughs - were pressed into service on the Staten Island line, replacing the rolling stock that had been inherited from the Baltimore and Ohio days and had been in use since 1925 (the R44 cars were still running on the line as of 2004).

In 1994, as part of a public image campaign of the MTA, the various operating agencies of the MTA were given "popular names" at which time the public face of SIRTOA became MTA Staten Island Railway, which name is used on trains, stations, timetables and other public presentments.

FRA oversight

Unlike the New York City Transit Authority (NYCTA) SIRTOA is subject to rules of the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) but operates under a waiver which permits it to exempt itself from certain rules of equipment and operation usually required by the FRA.

This FRA status complicates any plan for combined freight and passenger operation, since any operation of freight equipment or connection to the national railroad system would threaten its waiver.

[GP38]

While on this subject, is there any chance of them reviving the North Shore line in Staten Island for either freight or passenger?

[BMT]

To answer an earlier query about the FRA modifications to the R-44 fleet: besides the window glass that was already mentioned, IIRC the cars were outfitted with additional FRA-required grab-irons on the bodies of the cars (for climbing down to the roadbed). I believe the cars were exempt from sporting ditch lights, which I'm sure is related to the fact that the active line no longer has grade-crossings.

GP-38: there is always talk of re-activating the North Shore Line. However some portions have already been developed on and so the line would not run continuously if some kind of service -- most likely lightrail -- were to be run on what does remain. BTW, one idea that was tossed around was a connection to the north shore of SI by the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail system that currently terminates in southern Bayonne. If it were run another mile or so south, it'd be ripe for running over the Gothals Bridge and it could be run into SI. This of course would require a PATH-type coordination between the states of NJ and NY for this to work (politically of course).

Doug

[Rashidas]

In my opinion the real reason the NYC subway is not connected to the LIRR, metro North or other RR's in the 5 boroughs is that suburban commuters don't want to mix with lower class subway riders (except in Manhattan, where they have no choice). FRA standards is just an excuse. Where a direct connection is needed, for example PATH trains from New Jersey, a waiver is conveniently allowed.

If direct connections were tolerated, then subway service could be quickly expanded over the Westway in Manhattan (by extending the 14th St. line) and the LIRR Flatbush line could be integrated with the IRT or BMT near Atlantic Avenue. This woud allow much more efficient use of the 4 tracks through Brooklyn and could even include subway/PATH type service to Nassau county (Hempstead Mall, for example). The problem is more political than technical. Would do you subtalkers think?

[UpperHarlemLine4ever]

Your idea that this is done for class distinction purposes is absolutely absurd. The railroads already provide almost subway like service to the eastern (LI) and northern (Westchester) suburbs. The fares are slightly higher than the buses, ie $2.50 from Fordham to White Plains. Most of the connections between the railroads and the subways were at yard locations which allowed for movement of subway cars from railroad right of ways to the subways. Years ago, the subway cars were delivered to the transit system right on the rails. A string of subway cars was just mixed in or added to the rear of a freight train. They rain on their own wheels to NYC, where they were interchanged with the subway system.