Harrison to Journal Square speed

[finsuburbia]

Back in the days before SecJ, I had to take the PATH to get from the NEC to Hoboken to connect to my train north. Although I liked taking the train in general, I was pretty frustrated how a one hour car ride became a 2-3 hour triple or quadruple train ride. One thing that always struck me was my perceived sluggishness on the Harrison/Journal Square segment. A distance of 5 miles takes about 9 minutes according to the time tables (I know that it can be shorter sometimes in practice). Does anyone know of any ways in which the PA could speed this up? Will the new signaling system that they are installing help? New trackage?

[jb9152]

Back in the days before SecJ, I had to take the PATH to get from the NEC to Hoboken to connect to my train north. Although I liked taking the train in general, I was pretty frustrated how a one hour car ride became a 2-3 hour triple or quadruple train ride. One thing that always struck me was my perceived sluggishness on the Harrison/Journal Square segment. A distance of 5 miles takes about 9 minutes according to the time tables (I know that it can be shorter sometimes in practice). Does anyone know of any ways in which the PA could speed this up? Will the new signaling system that they are installing help? New trackage?

I believe that there are grade time signals all the way down the hill from the Hackensack River bridge and around the curve into Journal Square. They're a crude, time-tested, and still used method to control train speeds with timers. The new signal system, if it's ATC or CBTC, may help a bit.

West of the bridge, I've never perceived that there is any "sluggishness". In fact, that segment of the system operates at the highest speed allowable on PATH - 55 MPH.

[finsuburbia]

Back in the days before SecJ, I had to take the PATH to get from the NEC to Hoboken to connect to my train north. Although I liked taking the train in general, I was pretty frustrated how a one hour car ride became a 2-3 hour triple or quadruple train ride. One thing that always struck me was my perceived sluggishness on the Harrison/Journal Square segment. A distance of 5 miles takes about 9 minutes according to the time tables (I know that it can be shorter sometimes in practice). Does anyone know of any ways in which the PA could speed this up? Will the new signaling system that they are installing help? New trackage?

I believe that there are grade time signals all the way down the hill from the Hackensack River bridge and around the curve into Journal Square. They're a crude, time-tested, and still used method to control train speeds with timers. The new signal system, if it's ATC or CBTC, may help a bit.

West of the bridge, I've never perceived that there is any "sluggishness". In fact, that segment of the system operates at the highest speed allowable on PATH - 55 MPH.

That makes sense, although I have seen some slow downs west of the river as well. Would it be possible/useful to raise the speed limit, at least on this segment. 5 miles seems like a considerable distance between stops for a rapid transit system...

[Terrapin Station]

I've clocked path at over 62 MPH on that stretch. Well, toward Newark.

[OportRailfan]

I may have posted this elsewhere, but if I didn't the new system is going to be CBTC and they will need to retrofit the new technology into the new cars.

[OportRailfan]

Also, anyone know what the K designation on the signal plates are for...saw them on the nycsubway.com website, and then just saw them yesterday coming into journal square to newark

[Tommy Meehan]

Oport are you talking about the PATH signal page on the nycsubway.org site? Posted by Hank Sundermeyer? I posted a link below.

He explains and illustrates the diiferent signal indications but doesn't specifically define the letter plates, though. I've seen them explained -- most identify the signal's purpose I think (some are timing circuits, some are 'absolutes') -- but I don't remember the different meanings.

You also asked can PATH train operators 'key by' signals. Not sure about that one either. But I do know that NY City Transit has placed restrictions on the practice.

What I have seen PATH engineers do is, they watch the little trip arms on the signals. When they begin to lower -- a second or two before the signal blinks from red to green -- they start accelerating. It's cool to see. It looks like they're running the red signal. I've seen riders look up in alarm and even comment to one another, "Hey the engineer's going through a red light!" LOL

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/path/path-signals.html

[OportRailfan]

Yeah that's the page...under rule 211, 214, and 215, if you look on the white nameplates for the signals, there are K ones....what do the K's designate....I know for a fact that Z signals are automatics, and X's are home signals/interlockings...are K's dwarfs?

[PONYA]

PATH Signal plates desiginations 1. Number plus X = Interlocking Signal 2. Number plus Z = Automatic Signal 3. Number plus K = Key Automatic Signal
There are 3 places on PATH where "K" sIgnals are used. 2 at Journal Square 1 in Newark.

Basically a special key has to be inserted in a box at the wayside signal to drive the tripper arm down.
Its function is to allow a train to berth while a train is still loading on the platform ahead. This is so the Conductor can begin to set the train up for passenger service.

[OportRailfan]

ahh so the path did have Key-by's at one point then?