PATH Signaling System

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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MNRR PA OPERATOR

PATH Signaling System

Post by MNRR PA OPERATOR » Thu May 25, 2006 6:32 am

Question: the signals outside the portal on the yellow and red lines before JSQ, are their aspects the same as the underground signals? or do they have different indications? e.g. does a double yellow on the signal bridge still mean speed control? or does it have another meaning?

dgraiani
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Post by dgraiani » Fri May 26, 2006 10:25 am

Yep, they're the same.

Head-end View
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Double Yellow

Post by Head-end View » Wed May 31, 2006 9:29 pm

PATH uses one signal system. Double yellow is always speed-control. :-)

Terry Kennedy
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Re: Double Yellow

Post by Terry Kennedy » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:50 am

Head-end View wrote:PATH uses one signal system. Double yellow is always speed-control. :-)
There are some oddballs - for example, the signal at the NJ-bound junction controlling movement to Hoboken vs. Pavonia is not bottom=left, top=right. It has an auxiliary L/R display box to help explain things.

Also (related to signalling) a red aspect with a lunar white below indicates that while the signal is red, the trip arm is retracted (down). Those used to MTA signalling would stop and then proceed after the trip arm retracted (key-by) while you can just roll past it on PATH.

Some of the reverse-direction signals (I know of one when using the NY-bound midtown tube toward NJ) don't have associated trip arms. I was surprised when an instructor pointed it out, but sure enough, there it was[n't].

Frogger

Post by Frogger » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:53 pm

it looks like new signals were installed in Hoboken the past few days. About 2/3s of the way down the platforms.

pdtrains
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Post by pdtrains » Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:34 pm

Are there any PRR position light still left on the path tracks between JSQ and EWR? Maybe at the Hackensack River draw?

I remember in the 1960s when most of the signals between the tunnel portal east of JSQ, and EWR, were PRR position (pedestal signals at JSQ)...and now that I think of it, the PRR/PC owned the tracks from JSQ to EWR up until PATH...and those trains were listed in the PRR employee timetable.

The signal bridge mentioned in the thread before was IRRC, position lights in the 1960s. The two inner tracks were H&M and the outer tracks were PRR. The outer tracks were abandoned mid 1960's, and then late 1960s, PATH rebuilt all four tracks, new signals, rebuilt tracks/platforms at JSQ, etc. My timing may be off by a few years.

Does anyone besides me remember any of this, as well as the PRR conductors on the EWR trains, the MP-51s (the K cars) with PRR keystones, and the highway grade crossing just east of the Hack draw, with a gate tender to operate the gates??

Irish Chieftain

Post by Irish Chieftain » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:18 am

By "EWR", what do you mean? That references Newark Airport to me.

pdtrains
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Post by pdtrains » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:02 am

Sorry, I forgot about the new Newark Airport station.
I was refering to the Newark Penn Station..I'll use NWK
from now on.

Here is a great photo, from the nycsubway site...

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24783

It is taken from the old Journal Square platform, looking east.
The train is the original H&M "Black cars"

Notice that...all tracks have overhead wires, and PRR signals, and Waldo tower, which controlled the interlocking.

The 2 tracks to the far left are the freight tracks, which were in use till
the mid 1990's, or so.
The tracks ahead...the 2 inner are the PRR/H&M tracks to grove street and beyond. The 2 outer tracks went to Exchange place, the PRR's Jersey City terminal.
This is all pre-New York Penn Station trackage...you could take a Pennsy train to Journal Square, and change to the H&M train to get into Manhattan.
The last PRR train to use the outer tracks to Exchange Place was late 50's-early 60's...the NYLB diesel trains to Bay head I think were the last.
By 1964 the 2 outer tracks were derelict, and by 1970, PATH owned the ROW and rebuilt all 4 tracks with 3rd rail, no overhead wire, and color light signals. The Journal Square station was rebuilt at this time, too.

I remember all this from the early 60's, but this is the 1st pic I've seen.

pdtrains
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Post by pdtrains » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:11 am

Here is another great shot...
Its the PRR MP-38 "Red cars", the original Pennsy cars for NWK-Hudson terminal service...PRR "owl eyes" and all.

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?49819

This is the old West side ave grade crossing, which was between JSQ and Hack draw.

These cars were replaced by the MP-51/K cars after 1958.
The grade crossing was eliminated during the PATH reconstruction
in the mid-late 60's.

As you can see, all PRR trackage with wires and position lights.

The 2 tracks to the right are the passenger tracks which handled the MP-38's (3rd rail) and the passenger trains to Exchange place.
These tracks are still there today, the PATH tracks to NWK. This is just
east of the Hack draw.

The 2 tracks to the left are the freight tracks (The P&H branch) from Waverly, Kearny, etc, to Harsimus cove, at the time.
Today these 2 tracks curve up to the left as part of the new Marion connection to North Bergen Yard, Croxton, etc.

Any comments, questions, etc?

timz
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Post by timz » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:06 pm

pdtrains wrote:you could take a Pennsy train to Journal Square, and change to the H&M train to get into Manhattan.
As I recall there was a PRR Summit Ave station, but that was replaced by H&M Journal Square. Far as I know PRR trains never stopped there-- their tracks didn't have platforms. PRR passengers changed to H&M at Manhattan Tfr until 1937, then at Newark.

Irish Chieftain

Post by Irish Chieftain » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:23 pm

Or PRR passengers rode all the way to Exchange Place and rode the H&M one stop into Manhattan.

timz
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Post by timz » Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:48 pm

Yeah, I should have said passengers on trains to NY Penn could change to the H&M at Manh Tfr. If they were already on a PRR train bound for Jersey City, they probably couldn't change at Manh Tfr even if they wanted to-- Jersey City trains mostly didn't stop there.

OportRailfan
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Re: Double Yellow

Post by OportRailfan » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:51 pm

Terry Kennedy wrote:
Head-end View wrote:PATH uses one signal system. Double yellow is always speed-control. :-)
There are some oddballs - for example, the signal at the NJ-bound junction controlling movement to Hoboken vs. Pavonia is not bottom=left, top=right. It has an auxiliary L/R display box to help explain things.

Also (related to signalling) a red aspect with a lunar white below indicates that while the signal is red, the trip arm is retracted (down). Those used to MTA signalling would stop and then proceed after the trip arm retracted (key-by) while you can just roll past it on PATH.
bump...

I just discovered the K signal you're talking about at Newark Penn, Terry. First time I've seen it in 2+ years riding the system.
Dock & Q: Last of a dying breed

PONYA
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Re: PATH Signaling System

Post by PONYA » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:07 pm

OportRailFan
The other 2 Signals like Newark are the very west end Tracks 1-2 platform at Journal Square.

Terry Kennedy
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Re: Double Yellow

Post by Terry Kennedy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:18 pm

OportRailfan wrote:I just discovered the K signal you're talking about at Newark Penn, Terry. First time I've seen it in 2+ years riding the system.
I think those are actual key-required key-by signals - at least, they have boxes with keyholes attached.

An example of the kind I was talking about can be seen when running single-track into Hoboken on what is normally the outbound (from Hoboken) track. There's a signal guarding entry to the interlocking which displays red + lunar white during single-track operation on that track. I don't have the signal number handy and it'd be a pain to unroll drawings to find it - if I happen to be on a train heading to Hoboken when this configuration is used, I'll note the plate number and report back.

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