Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

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ajp
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Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by ajp » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:55 pm

apparently a lot of changes are coming to the shuttle

https://www.wsp.com/en-US/insights/time ... nstruction

Also some fun facts about the shuttle history on the columbia.edy abamdoned stations site by Joseph Brennan
regarding the "other" Grand central station which is now part of the walkway between the end of the shuttle and the Lex Ave line

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by Jeff Smith » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:15 pm

Split this post off from the maintenance cycle thread. I have to say this is really awesome. Now it would be really cool if they started “through running”! The same route as the original IRT. I would think that could be a useful service pattern. The way the new TSQ center platform would be set up there are no longer bridge plates to prevent it.
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ajp
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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by ajp » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:25 pm

if they didn’t think to do thru running way back when what makes one think the MTA would do it now
Even thou you have some of the infrastructure left on the Lex Ave any thought of expanding the single track interlocking on the 7 ave side would be mind boggling
Then there’s the little detail of redoing the underpinnings of 42 nd street to put a crossover from tk 4 to connect with the truncated tk 3 to tk 1 that does connect to the Lex line.
I think the 2nd ave Subway will be complete before any of this is contemplated
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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:41 am

To be sure, it would gum up the inter-lockings. on the Lex and the Broadway. Almost Chicago El like LOL. But don't they already have a crossover between GCT and TSQ?
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ajp
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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by ajp » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:04 am

track 4 is isolated just to the northbound 7th ave local
track 3 is connected to track 1 near the gct end and just connected to the southbound Lex Ave local

With this proposal as reported tk 3 will be covered over at the TSQ end so it stands to reason they will cover it over at the GCT end.

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by ExCon90 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:09 pm

I think the real problem is that if a southbound from Broadway turns left at TSQ there will be an unused slot down 7th Ave., and when it turns right at GCT there's an unused slot coming down Lex, and they simply can't afford the loss of track capacity. I don't know what else they can do except make the shuttle transfers as painless as possible. When I worked at Bowling Green in the 1960's a co-worker referred to taking the Lex as "getting your suit pressed," and I gather the crowding is if anything worse today.

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by andrewjw » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:44 am

Also, though the trackways for the northbound tunnels are still present at Grand Central, the southbound at Times Square would cross at grade. No way is that happening!

If you want a crazy idea (no way will this ever happen) you can imagine the Lex tracks being reorganized just north of Grand Central so the current southbound platform is for locals and the current northbound is for expresses (the expresses go down just north, so it would be possible to change this and maintain grade separation), then route the local tracks south of Grand Central via a new tunnel to run on the southern two of the trackways of the shuttle, and built a corresponding new tunnel at Penn to connect the old Track 2 (now the southbound 6 track, running westward) to the southbound 7th Av track and a curve for the northbound local to make the same connection at grade. A new connection would be needed for the southbound 1 tracks under Broadway before Times Square to connect to Track 3 as well. The alignment at Grand Central already provides for these tracks to join the Park Av South local tracks at grade. Then you could run the locals all across town!

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:21 am

Can you imagine the cost for that?!

I was really only thinking about the original IRT route, and not the 123 Broadway crossing from south to north, just the 456 continuing from South across to North. As noted, the loss of a slot on the north end of the Lex, and the south end of the Broadway, probably derail :wink: this idea.
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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by Kilo Echo » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:23 am

I'm glad the rendering of the modified shuttle station retains the "Knickerbocker" door. :-)
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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by Allan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:14 pm

I read the article in the first posting and wonder - if they are going to run two 6 car trains where are they going to get the 2 extra cars from.

At present the shuttle is 10 cars (3, 4, 3), the trains on the 1, 3 and 6 lines are all 10 cars long. Does that mean that when the reno is complete there are going to be either two 9 car trains or one 8 car train running on one of these lines?

The R142/142As are two 5 car sets making one train so there is nothing to get from that equipment. The same with the R188s which are in sets of 6 and 5 to make an 11 car train. They cant get an extra car for that either.

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GojiMet86
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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by GojiMet86 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:14 pm

I would expect the R262 (the replacements for the R62/62A) to have 6-car sets for the shuttle.

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by andrewjw » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:29 am

Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:14 pm
I read the article in the first posting and wonder - if they are going to run two 6 car trains where are they going to get the 2 extra cars from.

At present the shuttle is 10 cars (3, 4, 3), the trains on the 1, 3 and 6 lines are all 10 cars long. Does that mean that when the reno is complete there are going to be either two 9 car trains or one 8 car train running on one of these lines?

The R142/142As are two 5 car sets making one train so there is nothing to get from that equipment. The same with the R188s which are in sets of 6 and 5 to make an 11 car train. They cant get an extra car for that either.
No, there won't be 8 or 9 car trains running. For the R62s, there are always a few single cars floating around (after all, the 7 used 5- and 6-car sets and the 6 uses only 5-car sets). They will run 6-car sets of R188s or R262s after the R62s are retired.

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by Allan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:58 pm

andrewjw wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:29 am


No, there won't be 8 or 9 car trains running. For the R62s, there are always a few single cars floating around (after all, the 7 used 5- and 6-car sets and the 6 uses only 5-car sets). They will run 6-car sets of R188s or R262s after the R62s are retired.
Yes they ran 5 and 6 car sets of R62s (to make a 11 car train) on the 7 but by doing so reduced the amount of cars available so there were at least one less train they could use.

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by andrewjw » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:00 pm

Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:58 pm

Yes they ran 5 and 6 car sets of R62s (to make a 11 car train) on the 7 but by doing so reduced the amount of cars available so there were at least one less train they could use.
Yes, longer trains = fewer sets. They can adjust for this by buying more R262s.
For just two cars, the change in the singles spare factor should be negligible until then.

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Re: Times Square 42nd St Shuttle Station Renovation

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:04 pm

The 6-car sets on the 7 were six single units (later years two 5-car sets plus a single unit for 11 cars).
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