PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Idiot Railfan
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PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by Idiot Railfan »

In an earlier incarnation of railroad.net, there was a listing by number of the cars buried in the WTC station on September 11, 2001. Later I was able to add the names of the cars that were named after towns. Is this still around anyplace?

Also, were any of these cars placed back into service? I know several were crushed, but IIRC, a few were recovered relatively unscathed. I know there was/is concern about contaminants, so perhaps that is why the remain out of service? Were any scrapped?

Thanks!
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JLo
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Post by JLo »

IIRC, the PA was talking about restoring them to service as they were needed. Perhaps when the new cars come on line, they will be pulled and sent to the 9-11 museum.
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Homo sapiens

Post by Homo sapiens »

Was the train serving as WTC's "gap train" on 9/11, i.e. a consist sitting in a terminal OOS but capable of being started by an Extra crew (who under the circumstances could not be called or dispatched)? Or did a car or cars on the train have some kind of breakdown earlier, rendering the whole train inoperable?

Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 »

Homo sapiens wrote:Was the train serving as WTC's "gap train" on 9/11, i.e. a consist sitting in a terminal OOS but capable of being started by an Extra crew (who under the circumstances could not be called or dispatched)? Or did a car or cars on the train have some kind of breakdown earlier, rendering the whole train inoperable?
My recollection is one train was unattended and shut down at WTC, and one HOB train was waiting on its outbound track at WTC around 845 am.

The PATH DS was notified very early (maybe 848 or so), and he unloaded a NWK-WTC a train at Grove, which then ran light with crew and maybe six or seven PAPD to WTC. That train left the PAPD officers and then evacuated PATH personnel, passengers, and at least one derelict who was forcibly removed. The crew of the HOB train left with the NWK-WTC rescue train.

I'd have to go back and reread the 9/11 report to confirm, but that's how I recall it.

pgengler
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Re: PATH cars in WTC on Sept. 11

Post by pgengler »

Idiot Railfan wrote:Later I was able to add the names of the cars that were named after towns. Is this still around anyplace?
I'm working on my own list as I see them, but the compete list I've seen is here:
http://www.hobokenterminal.com/path/pathnames.html
Phil Gengler

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Robert Paniagua
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Post by Robert Paniagua »

I think that PATH train that was there on Septerber 11, 2001 was scrapped and sent to Fresh Kills Landfill.
~Robert Paniagua
Moderator: WMATA :: General Railroad Operations

TREnecNYP

Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by TREnecNYP »

No, the cars are stored out of service, not scrapped. I believe i last saw them on the far end tail track coming down off of Dock. They were shrink wrapped. Not sure where they are now.

- A

litz
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Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by litz »

Some quick Googling reveals that the out of service train was recovered from under the wreckage at least somewhat intact. If I remember correctly from a few of the TV shows that chronicled the recovery efforts back then, the pictures of the train in the station showed it at least partially submerged. Does anyone know the actual damage (aside from water) that it endured?

The train most people think of - the cars that ran the first train back into the restored WTC PATH station - were actually the last train out prior to the tower collapse.

- litz

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by R36 Combine Coach »

Two cars were sent to JFK for storage (reportedly the Smithsonian was taking them for a 9/11 related collection). If you look on Live/Bing Maps view, you'll see several wrapped cars covered in a tarp at the Harrison shop. Are those the WTC cars?
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

TREnecNYP

Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by TREnecNYP »

litz wrote:Some quick Googling reveals that the out of service train was recovered from under the wreckage at least somewhat intact. If I remember correctly from a few of the TV shows that chronicled the recovery efforts back then, the pictures of the train in the station showed it at least partially submerged. Does anyone know the actual damage (aside from water) that it endured?
There was probably a little fire/heat damage from the conflagration inside the towers and nearby underground, i believe one of the cars was partially crushed, either the train was towards the south tower, or towards the north tower on the platform, whichever end was more towards a tower would have been the one that got damaged. To get them out i believe they simply cut the damaged part of the carbody away. I remember seeing photos of this somewhere i totally forget. I will look into it before i go to sleep/tomorrow.

----

Typed that 3 hours ago, did serious research which came up with some images....

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Near where the train was found:
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/p ... moHM03.jpg
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/p ... moHM01.jpg
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/p ... lean05.jpg
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/p ... lean03.jpg
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/p ... demo04.jpg

Apparently 3 of the 7 cars were mushed? I believe they were cut where needed to pull them out.

A side note: where i found some of these photos, was a 9/11 conspiracy site, claiming some kind of "metal infection".... Yea.. So, they were asking things like "where did this fresh brown soil come from", not knowing i guess that the majority of the WTC site underneath of and to the east of the subway tunnel and under and next to the PATH tunnels was soil that was never moved from the WTC construction. In the excavation to bedrock on the eastern portion, large amounts of soil were removed, primarily for foundation work for 4WTC, but also to clean up the area around the PATH and subway tunnels.

It amazes me what people who are uneducated or ignorant to plain information they just never bothered to learn try to cook up about 9/11.

- A

Robert Paniagua
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PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by Robert Paniagua »

It amazes me what people who are uneducated or ignorant to plain information they just never bothered to learn try to cook up about 9/11.

I know, especially the 9/11 thruthers that think Halliburton had something to do with it, but that isn't the case. Now back on topic, as I saw those photos, I saw cars 139 and 143 intact, not crushed in like the other ones. So maybe those two cars went down to the Washington memorial for 9/11, as for the other two that were not crushed, who knows what happened.
~Robert Paniagua
Moderator: WMATA :: General Railroad Operations

TREnecNYP

Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by TREnecNYP »

Robert Paniagua wrote:It amazes me what people who are uneducated or ignorant to plain information they just never bothered to learn try to cook up about 9/11.

I know, especially the 9/11 thruthers that think Halliburton had something to do with it, but that isn't the case. Now back on topic, as I saw those photos, I saw cars 139 and 143 intact, not crushed in like the other ones. So maybe those two cars went down to the Washington memorial for 9/11, as for the other two that were not crushed, who knows what happened.
I am pretty sure they are being prepped/stored somewheres for eventual placement inside the 9/11 memorial at the wtc or in the visitor center. I've heard things about one of them going to the memorial out in western pennsylvania, but nothing official. I will do some poking around online over the next few weeks to see what i can come up with.

- A

airman00
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Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by airman00 »

I'm just curious of one thing...There was some time that passed before the first building came down, and in reading this topic, it appears that a "rescue" train ran through and got everyone in that station out safe. Why didn't that "rescue" train also have 1 extra engineer who could've started up that train that was there and they could've gotten that train out too. It seems to me (forgive me no offense intended), that maybe they abandoned that train, even though it appears that they had time to save it.

Terry Kennedy
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Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by Terry Kennedy »

airman00 wrote:Why didn't that "rescue" train also have 1 extra engineer who could've started up that train that was there and they could've gotten that train out too. It seems to me (forgive me no offense intended), that maybe they abandoned that train, even though it appears that they had time to save it.
Even if all the normal safety checks were skipped (a reasonable assumption in an event like this, particularly for a non-revenue train), the crew would still have to release the parking brakes on each car (yes, they do have parking brakes).

It made sense for the PA to risk a rescue train to get people out, but risking even one engineer's life to remove a laid-up train? Not so much. Remember, they didn't know how long they had or what could have happened. For example, a loss of trackside air pressure would raise the trip arm at every signal, and either the engineer would have to stop the train, get out, and use the latches to tie the handles down, or a second crew member would need to walk in front of the train.

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: PATH cars in WTC on 9/11

Post by R36 Combine Coach »

Robert Paniagua wrote: Now back on topic, as I saw those photos, I saw cars 139 and 143 intact, not crushed in like the other ones. So maybe those two cars went down to the Washington memorial for 9/11, as for the other two that were not crushed, who knows what happened.
A few years ago the NY Times had photos inside the shed at JFK where PANYNJ stores recovered WTC material. Two of the intact cars stored were Hawker Siddeley PA3s (700 series).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

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