PATH at Hoboken and 33rd St

[pumpers]

I took PATH yesterday from Grove St to 33rd st (and back from Christopher St), and for weekend service it went via Hoboken where we reversed direction. I probably haven't been on PATH, for sure not from Hoboken to 33rd), in around 45 years.
3 comments:

1. We were only at the platform in Hoboken for a few minutes, but it didn't seem to have that funky "Hoboken PATH smell" that I recall all too well. Maybe it was just the time of year?

2. I'm older, but the PATH cars are newer. Anyone know how often they have been replaced/upgraded since the early 1970's?

3. The old Gimbel's passageway (from the PATH station going underground under 33rd st to Penn Station) is closed. I knew it was closed, but there was talk a few years ago about some possible deal to re-open it: viewtopic.php?f=68&t=27955&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jim S

[TDowling]

I personally think Hoboken has a funky chemical smell, but that's just me.

[GirlOnTheTrain]

Consult wikipedia for your rolling stock questions - they've been 100% PA-5 since 2011, but wikipedia spells out when all of their car contracts were delivered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(rai ... ling_stock

The Port Authority awarded a $499 million contract to Kawasaki to design and build 340 new PATH cars (called the PA5), which replaced the system's entire aging fleet. With an average age of 42 years, the fleet was the oldest of any operating heavy rail line in the United States. The Port Authority announced that the new cars would be updated versions of MTA's R142A cars. The first of these new cars entered revenue service July 10, 2009

[pumpers]

Thanks GirlontheTrain,

Wikipedia says new cars came ~1965 (PA1), ~1967 (PA2), 1972 (PA3). This makes a lot of sense - I remember the cars being fairly new and shiny at the time (~1973 or so), especially compared to the 1930-ish Lackawanna MU's running to Hoboken on the M&E at the time (which are still my favorites).
It also says

Back-lit panels above the doors displayed the destination of that particular train: HOB for Hoboken, JSQ for Journal Square, NWK for Newark, 33 for 33rd Street, and WTC for World Trade Center.

I think I remember these too - different colors, in horizontal rectangles, with a modern looking font.
Must be some pictures of those panels above the doors out there someone can send a link to!
- Jim S
That Hoboken path smell was sort of that hydrogen sulfide rotten egg/sewage smell. I think I've seen on the web it is/was related to the rusting tunnel liners or something like that.
EDIT: what do you know! I did some digging, and the Hoboken smell was discussed right here in 2011. See the 2nd post: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=82972" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Head-end View]

One other point in the car history that was not mentioned in your Wiki summary. In the mid-1980's the PA-4's replaced the K-series cars from the late 1950's. The PA-4's were the first PATH cars to feature 3 sets of doors per side. I for one was very sorry they were retired along with the earlier PA cars, even though they were almost 25 years old, but didn't "feel" that old. I had strongly hoped they would be rebuilt the way the earlier PA cars were in the 1980's so we would still have had some cars with a front window view.

As you may have noted in your recent trip, the 2009-2011 built PA-5's are very nice modern trains except for their very obvious deficiency re: lack of any passenger view out the front of the train, unlike all the earlier PA model cars. This has been a major thorn in my side, since I took my last PA-4 ride in August of 2011.

But the PATH ride across the Jersey Meadows to Newark is still a pretty interesting trip.

[R36 Combine Coach]

One other point in the car history that was not mentioned in your Wiki summary. In the mid-1980's the PA-4's replaced the K-series cars from the late 1950's. The PA-4's were the first PATH cars to feature 3 sets of doors per side..

The K-cars were retired from passenger service by 1989, most remained in work service, the last one (1243) retired in 2010. The PA4s are now in work service and replaced the K-cars twice: in both passenger service and work service.

[Terry Kennedy]

One other point in the car history that was not mentioned in your Wiki summary. In the mid-1980's the PA-4's replaced the K-series cars from the late 1950's. The PA-4's were the first PATH cars to feature 3 sets of doors per side. I for one was very sorry they were retired along with the earlier PA cars, even though they were almost 25 years old, but didn't "feel" that old. I had strongly hoped they would be rebuilt the way the earlier PA cars were in the 1980's so we would still have had some cars with a front window view.

The PA-4 cars were... odd. The offset door style, combined with the location of the grab columns, meant that it was not possible to move a wheelchair from one side of the car to the other, until the posts were taken out after delivery. They also had independent controls for the 3 door sets on each side, to handle the "the first car of this train will not open at Exchange Place" - it would be possible to open 1 or 2 of the 3 door sets. The PA-1 through PA-3 were retrofitted to work with this system (that's the F/C/R underneath the screwed-on cover plate at the conductor's postion on the -1 to -3) as well as other improvements. As they were retrofitted, they were renumbered with an R on the end of the existing car number.

PA-1 through -3 were aluminum bodies and were corroding pretty badly by the end where the bodies contacted dissimilar metals. PA-4 were stainless and were in better shape.

But there were less than 100 PA-4 cars and with planned modernizations like CBTC and in-car video monitors, a retrofit program, even to provide the minimum necessary compatibility, would have been very expensive and may have had unintended consequences, so they decided to replace the whole fleet.

As you may have noted in your recent trip, the 2009-2011 built PA-5's are very nice modern trains except for their very obvious deficiency re: lack of any passenger view out the front of the train, unlike all the earlier PA model cars. This has been a major thorn in my side, since I took my last PA-4 ride in August of 2011.

There is no technical reason a PA-5 could not be operated with the cab in the "collapsed" (walkway) position - all of the operating controls are inside the right-hand engineer's compartment.

[Head-end View]

I think it's the Port authority's post 9/11 era hysteria. They're probably afraid that any potential railfan-terrorists might see some classified-secret signal aspects.

But seriously, I imagine the lack of forward view may drive the old-school conductors nuts too as they were used to being able to see all the way thru even from their station in the rear of the car. However, I suspect many of the newer generation of conductors may not be as concerned about it.

Back in 2009, when the first PA-5's came into service, I wrote to the P.A. on their website decrying the lost public relations value of eliminating the front-windows. A manager wrote back saying they needed the full-width cab to house the newly required ATC equipment and that they had considered all possible configurations before deciding on this cab. Probably total B/S, but that was the official line anyway.

[Terry Kennedy]

I think it's the Port authority's post 9/11 era hysteria. They're probably afraid that any potential railfan-terrorists might see some classified-secret signal aspects.

Or the detectors that give themselves away by blinking continually, at least until they were covered with tunnel crud.

But seriously, I imagine the lack of forward view may drive the old-school conductors nuts too as they were used to being able to see all the way thru even from their station in the rear of the car. However, I suspect many of the newer generation of conductors may not be as concerned about it.

Traditional conductor position was in the first and second cars, mostly to avoid opening the head car at Exchange Place before it was extended post-9/11.

Back in 2009, when the first PA-5's came into service, I wrote to the P.A. on their website decrying the lost public relations value of eliminating the front-windows. A manager wrote back saying they needed the full-width cab to house the newly required ATC equipment and that they had considered all possible configurations before deciding on this cab. Probably total B/S, but that the official line anyway.

For operation, everything is in the cab:



Blur added and identifying info removed to hopefully not upset folks.