Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #1237247  by Passenger
 
Kamen Rider wrote: BMT equipment save for the standards.
So what was the reson for the design decision in the first place (before the IND)?

It wasn't as if nobody thought of putting them inside.
 #1237277  by Fan Railer
 
Passenger wrote:
Kamen Rider wrote: BMT equipment save for the standards.
So what was the reason for the design decision in the first place (before the IND)?

It wasn't as if nobody thought of putting them inside.
I believe the reason is somewhat lost to history, but one can conjecture that exterior controls and the footplate setup survived so long because of the inherent advantage of increased visibility for the conductor while operating the doors.
 #1237333  by railfan365
 
I concur on the visibility issue. The conductor stood up high enough to have a superior view of the crowds. Starting in 1950, the conductor's safety is a likely reason for moving the door controls inside, with the fleet evolving to full width cabs partly based on that.
 #1238573  by ExCon90
 
It may also have had something to do with the fact that there were no through door controls in the early days; doors in each car were controlled from that car. By placing a conductor between two cars, with controls on the outside, one man standing between the cars was able to control the doors in two adjacent cars.
 #1238583  by Fan Railer
 
ExCon90 wrote:It may also have had something to do with the fact that there were no through door controls in the early days; doors in each car were controlled from that car. By placing a conductor between two cars, with controls on the outside, one man standing between the cars was able to control the doors in two adjacent cars.
Yes. This is true. I believe the first cars in the system equipped with trainline door controls were the BMT Standards, which makes sense as to why they were also the first cars in the system to introduce interior door controls for the conductors.
 #1238733  by Paul1705
 
It looks really dangerous. However, during the 1970s, I don't remember any news reports about conductors falling between the cars. I assume that's because of good crew training?
 #1238963  by Head-end View
 
Hmmm.......I had never considered the lack of trainline for the doors. I always just figured it was for visibility. But I thought when the R-1's were built in the 1930's that trainlne door control already existed by that time, or am I mistaken? Anyone here know for sure when trainline for the doors was introduced and cars retrofitted?
 #1239065  by ExCon90
 
Paul1705 wrote:It looks really dangerous. However, during the 1970s, I don't remember any news reports about conductors falling between the cars. I assume that's because of good crew training?
As best I can recall, they didn't actually ride outside between stations. They waited until the train was on the platform and almost stopped before going outside; at departure they stayed out there long enough to observe the platform as the train left, and then went inside.
 #1239088  by railfan365
 
ExCon90 wrote:
Paul1705 wrote:It looks really dangerous. However, during the 1970s, I don't remember any news reports about conductors falling between the cars. I assume that's because of good crew training?
As best I can recall, they didn't actually ride outside between stations. They waited until the train was on the platform and almost stopped before going outside; at departure they stayed out there long enough to observe the platform as the train left, and then went inside.
That's exactly what they did. They rode inside while the train was moving, went out as it was coming to a stop, and came back insideonce they had observed the platform for the requisite 3 lengths.
 #1239121  by Head-end View
 
It still was very dangerous and I'm glad it's no longer done. I used to get nervous watching the conductors do it years ago. Today, it probably would not be permitted by OSHA, the FRA or other regulatory agencies concerned with workplace safety.
 #1240580  by Paul1705
 
Yes, I saw them climbing up and down at each stop. The moments they had to observe the platform on the way out of the station seemed the worst, and then they had to step backwards to get back down. And at outside stations the weather was a factor too.

Didn't the R-10s have the same arrangement?
 #1240652  by Fan Railer
 
Paul1705 wrote:Yes, I saw them climbing up and down at each stop. The moments they had to observe the platform on the way out of the station seemed the worst, and then they had to step backwards to get back down. And at outside stations the weather was a factor too.

Didn't the R-10s have the same arrangement?
I think so, iirc, the first cars on the IND with interior door controls were the R16s.