new and old south ferry

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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flexliner
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:01 am

new and old south ferry

Post by flexliner » Tue May 07, 2013 7:11 am

so the new south ferry will take a long time to rebuild and the old one is being used at least temporarily
once the new station is rebuilt - rather than decommission the old one again, what about using it nights and weekends when the train volume is far lower than weekdays/rush hours (the track was kept active and powered anyhow was it not?)

drumz0rz
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:49 am

Re: new and old south ferry

Post by drumz0rz » Fri May 10, 2013 9:27 pm

It's costly to maintain two stations when you don't have to. Also those gap-spreaders are annoying and unnecessary maintenance. They were actually removed and had to be reinstalled before they re-opened the old platforms.

railfan365
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Re: new and old south ferry

Post by railfan365 » Sat May 11, 2013 12:08 pm

drumz0rz wrote:It's costly to maintain two stations when you don't have to. Also those gap-spreaders are annoying and unnecessary maintenance. They were actually removed and had to be reinstalled before they re-opened the old platforms.
The reasons for maintaining the old terminal, before requiring it for emergency backup, were:

1. Expediting non-revenue moves and car storage.

2. Providing a crossover between the East and West side Lines for trains in lower Manhattan

Backshophoss
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Re: new and old south ferry

Post by Backshophoss » Sun May 12, 2013 11:17 pm

I remember reading that the gap fillers were "pinned" in the retracted position after ops were transfered to the new South Ferry station,
They were "unpinned" and with some minor maintance done were made functional again.
Be grateful for the foresight that the TA did what it did,otherwise it could have been a long time for South Ferry service to return.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

chuchubob
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Re: new and old south ferry

Post by chuchubob » Mon May 13, 2013 9:11 am


flexliner
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:01 am

Re: new and old south ferry

Post by flexliner » Tue May 14, 2013 4:41 am

the reason I asked the original question was because as 365 noted, the original loop was being maintained, albeit with less lighting and the gap fillers pinned open.
it was never totally decommissioned and probably never meant to be likely because of the Eside Wside connection.

question is how many personnel does it take to maintain the new station when open?
it might take less to maintain the old station during low usage hours. (? save $$ ??)
late nites the number of TPH should not be an issue for the old station .
might they even save a few bucks on the electric bill by darkening and de-energizing the new station late nites?
(just asking please no flames!.....)

Patrick Boylan
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Re: new and old south ferry

Post by Patrick Boylan » Tue May 14, 2013 7:02 am

My observation is that railroads and transit agencies don't have the last person to leave the station turn off the lights. I can't remember when I've ever seen a station anywhere hours after their last train has left that wasn't as brightly lit as it was at rush hour.

edit: I'm talking about surface and elevated stations. There are only a few places where one can see subway stations after they close, example Philadelphia 8th and 13th St, since there are intersecting lines with their own platforms whose concourses let you walk past the lines whose platforms are closed.

The stations I most frequently pass by after hours are NJT Riverline's 2 Burlington stops. They don't turn off a single light.
And NJT Riverline's Pennsauken Transfer Station isn't even open yet, still waiting for the parking lot and intersecting railroad station to get finished, but every one of its lights has been blazing, I assume 24 hours a day, for over a year.
I imagine NY subways to be no different.

Allan
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Location: Bronx, NY

Re: new and old south ferry

Post by Allan » Wed May 15, 2013 2:20 pm

The TA (MTA) has always had the opinion - 'If we don't need it anymore, there is no need to take care of it unless absolutely necessary".

South Ferry is unique in that a new station was built underneath it. As already stated while the loop station wasn't going to be used when the new station opened the tracks would have to remain in use to be able to turn #5 trains that termineted at Bowling Green (late night and weekends) and to allow for being to switch trains from the 7th Av line to the Lexington Av line (and vice versa) without having the trains go into Brooklyn and then have to come back to Manhattan.

I had always thought that the MTA would keep the old loop station maintained in reasonable condition to have as am immediate back up in case there was a problem at the new station - something that would have been a rare benefit. Obviously the decision makers at the MTA didn't share that thought. So much for the protection of a valuable asset. Because of their way of thinking they had to spend $2 million to get the old station back up for service (and they only did that because of heavy political pressure - they had originally stated they wouldn't reopen the station). I should point out that the old station loop suffered barely any damage from Sandy, which is a testament to the way they built stations back in the early 1900's.

Patrick - in the NYC subway closed/abandoned stations have the lighting reduced to only a few lights for security reasons. There is no reason to keep them fully lit. This is evident in the 91st St station on the #1 line, the 18th St & Worth St stations on the #6 line - periodically some homeless people knock those lights out to make it 100 dark). The Inner loop station at South Ferry still has the original lights going because they use the platform for storage. The northbound Myrtle Av station on the B and Q has lit zoetrope artwork on it and a few other lights but is otherwise dark. The 2 unused island platforms at Hoyt-Schermerhorn on the A & C have minimal lighting but there is plenty of light from the other 2 active platforms. The 9th AV - Lower Level station has minimal lighting for security, construction and crew purposes

There are even different lighting for stations built but never used - Roosevelt Av - lit because it is used for storage, Utica Av - lit and used for storage, South 4th - dark - not easily accessible by anyone so it is not used for storage. City Hall lower level (on the R) has minimal lighting as it is used for mid-day storage of trains and crew purposes.

The original IRT City Hall station is one old station that is kept fully lit - mainly for security reasons. As #6 trains do their loop to the northbound side of Brooklyn Bridge it allows the T/Os to see if there are any unauthorized people there (and the cameras installed work better when there is light).

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