Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airport

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Don31
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Don31 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:30 pm

Tom V wrote:Don31,

Any insight into why the cost has jumped so much, from approximately $600 million to $1.5 Billion. All sorts of groups while lauding the news are blasting it's cost, why did they costs jump so high. What else besides a 2 mile track extension, new yard and new platforms at EWR are they going to do for $1.5 Billion?
I'm still trying to figure it out Tom V. I can say that even though it was quoted as recently as last year, the $600 million figure was from 10 years ago. Still, its a pretty big jump. The $1.5 billion includes about 2.5 miles of trackwork, a new storage yard, system-wide improvements to signaling, power and communications, significant work at both Newark Penn and the airport station, utility relocation, environmental mitigation, vehicle procurement and right-of-way acquisition. Add to this a design contingency, a mobilization element, escalation and anticipated PA pro-forma costs and it adds up quickly.......
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.

Tom V
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Tom V » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:49 pm

Look at the PA Capital Plan PDF it states the Port Authority's part of the PATH extension is limited to $1 Billion. They mention seeking a private partner for a parking garage and commuter access which I guess is where the other $500 Million will come from. For background there have been attempts in the past by private developers (Hartz Mountain) to develop Waverly yards with Hotels and other buildings that would be linked directly to the EWR airport rail station. I believe that this latest plan and the inclusion of a private partner for a parking garage may be another attempt to kick start Waverly yards development.

See here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/01/nyreg ... d=tw-share

Don31
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Don31 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:05 pm

Tom V wrote:Look at the PA Capital Plan PDF it states the Port Authority's part of the PATH extension is limited to $1 Billion. They mention seeking a private partner for a parking garage and commuter access which I guess is where the other $500 Million will come from. For background there have been attempts in the past by private developers (Hartz Mountain) to develop Waverly yards with Hotels and other buildings that would be linked directly to the EWR airport rail station. I believe that this latest plan and the inclusion of a private partner for a parking garage may be another attempt to kick start Waverly yards development.

See here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/01/nyreg ... d=tw-share
A Triple-P might be a neat way to get around the restrictions imposed by using PFC revenue, we'll see.....

The Waverly Yards development by Hartz has been around for years, even before that Times article......
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.

FRN9
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by FRN9 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:34 pm

Does anyone know if the idea of bringing PATH trains to the terminals themselves has been considered? The monorail is rather pathetic and a single seat ride from Manhattan is far more attractive. NJT and Amtrak customers could transfer at the Newark Airport stop or even Newark Penn Station.

Fan Railer
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Fan Railer » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:36 pm

Don31 wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:
bleet wrote:Announced today:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Port_Au ... rport.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They talk about a one seat ride into the Airport.... Did I miss something? Because last I checked, the extension was supposed to require a transfer to NWK air train. Where would the new terminal station be? Under short term parking deck by the control tower?
It would be out on the NEC, adjacent to the airport station.
Lol, which would make it NOT a one seat ride :P

25Hz
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Re: PATH & Newark Airport article in The NY Observer

Post by 25Hz » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:24 am

You still need to pass over NEC and a highway & some other things are in the way. It can't be a straight shot. Plus you need yard tracks and other stuff, so while it seems simple in concept, it's really like building a brand new rail line where there isnt one. Any infrastructure expansion with railroads has a large upfront cost, because you're not building on an open plain, it's literally from the middle of, through the outskirts of a city, and across a 4 track trunk line, and there is a freight track in there somewhere near the rail link as well. 2024 seems like a reasonable finish date, though i wish it would be sooner...
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Don31
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Re: PATH & Newark Airport article in The NY Observer

Post by Don31 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:16 am

MattW wrote:Using Google Earth I get 1.55 miles, or 8,204 feet from the end of trackage south of Newark to the center of the current station's boarding bridge.
Its approximately 2.5 miles from Newark Penn to the Rail Link Station.
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.

Don31
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Re: PATH & Newark Airport article in The NY Observer

Post by Don31 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:20 am

25Hz wrote:You still need to pass over NEC and a highway & some other things are in the way. It can't be a straight shot. Plus you need yard tracks and other stuff, so while it seems simple in concept, it's really like building a brand new rail line where there isnt one. Any infrastructure expansion with railroads has a large upfront cost, because you're not building on an open plain, it's literally from the middle of, through the outskirts of a city, and across a 4 track trunk line, and there is a freight track in there somewhere near the rail link as well. 2024 seems like a reasonable finish date, though i wish it would be sooner...
I posted this on the other PATH - EWR thread, perhaps the mods can merge the two?

The work will include about 2.5 miles of trackwork, a new storage yard, system-wide improvements to signaling, power and communications, significant work at both Newark Penn and the airport station, utility relocation, environmental mitigation, vehicle procurement and right-of-way acquisition.
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.

Adirondacker
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Adirondacker » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:13 am

Fan Railer wrote: Lol, which would make it NOT a one seat ride :P
How many billions of dollars should they spend so people don't have to change to Airtrain? There's only going to be a few thousand of them a day.

ryanov
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by ryanov » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:34 pm

It should replace the AirTrain. That's really the best for everyone.
|=| R. Novosielski |=|

Adirondacker
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Adirondacker » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:02 pm

ryanov wrote:It should replace the AirTrain. That's really the best for everyone.
Not for the people who use it to get places other than the train station. They won't like having to get on shuttle buses again to get to the rental cars and long term parking lots. How many billions of dollars should we spend for the few thousand people a day who will use it?

pumpers
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by pumpers » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:03 am

"Construction on PATH airport extension to start in 2018" at http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/1 ... _2018.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" Construction on an extension of PATH service to Newark Liberty International Airport is scheduled to begin in late 2018 and be completed five years later, according to documents from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

A request for proposals, or RFP, to manage the $1.5 billion project issued on Sept. 26 calls for construction to begin in the first quarter of 2018, with completion scheduled for the fourth quarter of 2023. ..."

Sounds like it's really going to happen in my lifetime. As I see it, this will mostly benefit New Yorkers by giving them better access to Newark Airport (of course there is NJ benefit too for those in Jersey City and potentially more jobs at the airport use increases.) Now if the PA really wants to help NJ, they can replace the decrepit Port Authority Bus Terminal.
JS

zerovanity59
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by zerovanity59 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:39 am

pumpers wrote: As I see it, this will mostly benefit New Yorkers by giving them better access to Newark Airport (of course there is NJ benefit too for those in Jersey City and potentially more jobs at the airport use increases.)
JS
The reason no one uses the airport station to commute is the extreme fee charged. It is too early for any fare announcement for the path extension, but I assume it would have the same $5.50 fee plus the PATH fare. That would make it $8.25 to commute from Newark Penn station one way.

Don31
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by Don31 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:43 am

The reason no one uses the airport station to commute is because it was built with PFCs, so by law, they cannot......
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.

zerovanity59
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Post by zerovanity59 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:48 am

What are PFCs? How can the law tell people how they can not commute to work with public transportation?

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