Danbury Branch - History, Electrification, Studies

[Steamboat Willie]

I've written this post before, several times. Re-electrifying to Danbury will NOT, repeat NOT, improve the operation one twit above what is accomplished today with the present equipment. Believe me , I remember and rode under, the NH's electrification in the 50s. Get yourself a NH timetable from the 50s and you will see what I mean. The track improvement, and now the TCS, have accomplished a great deal. So please stop pushing electrification!!!!! It ain't worth it.

BTW, they really do need to improve one thing which I doubt is very difficult: get rid of the extreme speed restriction between Danbury station and south of Shelter Rock Rd. crossing. It was never that way before and doesn't need to be now. It's terrible. Probably the solution is to make the crossing circuits longer.

You can thank the garbage crossing predictor technology for the lower speeds you speak about. With the cold weather, even worse. There have been stop and warns almost everyday in that area due to the gates pumping, gates down but no train, etc. And some local police still aren't aware that such technology is in place and blow in the crossings frequently as not functioning as intended.

[DutchRailnut]

Darn I think police got it, but signal dept is in denial, the shit does not work as intended and therefor must be considered as failed.
FRA leaves no doubt about that.

[FL9AC]

Haven't seen a stop and warn in this location in a while so info is slightly incorrect. As for speeds it's better than MBS as speed was 20 from Danbury up to Sperry rail...now it's 20 from Danbury platform until halfway from East Liberty to Taylor Street then it becomes 40 up to MP 21...used to be 20 all the way to Shelter Rock Road so take your pick. Service isn't any slower than before. If anything it's quicker now.

[TCurtin]

OK, so it sounds like it has improved. Thank you --- I didn't know that

[MNCRR9000]

http://www.thereddingpilot.com/21770/de ... walk-line/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

State Sen. Toni Boucher (R-26) joined her colleagues from southwestern Connecticut, including state Sen. Scott Frantz (R-36) and state Reps. Tom O’Dea (R-125) and Gail Lavielle (R-143), in announcing a series of bills aimed at improving Metro-North and the Danbury-to-Norwalk branch line.

“Transportation is a top priority for our district and our state, and the issue is on the top of the governor’s to-do list this session,” said Ms. Boucher.

“It is critical that the district rail lines are improved for the general welfare of commuters and for commerce. Getting from point A to point B safely and on time has to be a focus.”

Mr. O’Dea, a ranking member of the Transportation Committee, said the update and upgrade of Metro-North’s lines are “seriously overdue.”

“Commuters have suffered under unacceptable conditions as unnecessary obstacles are thrown before the workforce we depend on as the engine of our state economy,” he said.

“These bills will take us through the critical first steps of changing those conditions, and providing the necessary investments which will ensure safety, reliability and efficiency.”

[NH2060]

I think it's time -if it hasn't happened already- that James Redeker sit down with everyone and explained why electrification of the branch isn't feasible. They should be focusing more on the other improvements/items listed as well (including the New Milford extension).

From what I can see the only possible way electrification would be worth it at all is if:

1) As much greenery along the ROW was cleared to lower the risk of damaged wires (which I don't see happening without any opposition given just how many trees, etc. there are along the branch).
2) Rte. 7 becomes too congested that even 30 diesel round trips isn't enough to satisfy demand (at which point maybe then electrification would begin to look more economical).
3) There are enough MUs for branchline service.
AND
4) It begins to become more feasible to run more through service to/from GCT (presumably as extensions of existing Stamford and South Norwalk trains).

Perhaps if they were told "You can either have enough money budgeted for more service expansion and operational improvements + all service expanded to New Milford OR electrification to Danbury. But not both" the arguments in favor of electric service would fade.

And even with the New Milford extension it is a priority, but IIRC omes after NHHS so it appears that will have to wait until Hartford Line service is up and running/getting closer to full service levels. So post-2020, etc.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

#1 isn't going to happen because NIMBY's.

#2 isn't a factor because in no way, shape, or form have they even begun to exhaust what service diesel can provide. That's a wretched schedule with very short trains. And besides, the number of passing sidings that would have to be installed to achieve service anyone would call reasonably dense so greatly outstrips the choice of rolling stock that they've got plenty to do.

#3...I would say, much like SLE, that the demands on the equipment pool for branchline service are such a drop in the bucket it doesn't functionally matter. The MTA hates that SLE is going to vulture 23 or whatever M8's...and that's why it's still all these years later being hashed out. But that's largely because they're the ones pushing Penn Station Access as their #1 Metro North goal, while CDOT has intrastate expansion goals. It's a political turf war. In the real world branchline service just isn't a statistically significant portion of equipment demands. If there has to be an "M8A" supplemental order of exact lookalikes in 8 years it's PSA service alone that's going to force it.

But...I'd also say maintenance of the diesel fleet is in the same boat. Danbury puts so little demand on the systemwide fleet that any notion of whether operating mixed diesel and EMU through South Norwalk is sustainable is way overblown. There is nothing you can throw at Danbury that Stamford shops won't be able to handle. Total non-issue for choice of mode.

#4 gets answered when they replace the P32's. The next duals fleet is going to be far, far larger than this one. Hudson Line PSA demands it, and it'll be a combo order with LIRR's for one make replacing 31 P32's and 21 DM30AC's + padding all in one shot. They can afford to pack that fleet padding to the max with the scale of the order sharply reducing their unit price. In fact, with only 12 BL20GH's to go around the diesel shuttle fleet is going to be such a small outlier compared to the probable number of next-gen duals available that I could see the MTA simply transacting its 6 Brookvilles over to CDOT and going 'clean' with one single make for all locos in the MTA-owned pool. The Brookvilles could become an entirely CDOT-landlocked feature. And as for the coaches...with the Shoreliners getting 100% displaced for MLV's and the bi-levels being so badly needed on the Hudson and Harlem vs. in CDOT-land, intra-agency transactions of best-of-the-rest Shoreliner dispersals become so cheap and easy the CT branchlines will basically be able to get the fleet of their dreams (well...numbers-wise at least) for pennies on the dollar. All of this is a non-issue the way it times with the huge slate of 2020 power and coach procurements.


A little urgency in the push for New Milford is going to be a good thing. Malloy's humongous transportation bill includes yet another stab at extending 'Super 7' a couple more miles north. Which, given how many times that's been torpedoed before almost makes the New Milford commuter rail extension a necessary prerequisite to touching the road again. Agreed...they don't have the money today, but the whole 'Super 7' debate by its lonesome is tortured enough to light a major fire under the rail extension as a top priority after ongoing capital projects like NHHS are closed out. CDOT may be CDOT, but I think this one is a reliable bet to get real on the planning front within 5 years and be under construction in the next 8-10 years. Route 7 is just that much the third rail of Fairfield County politics that I can't see that one proceeding to design until they have FIRM re-projections on traffic volumes that account for any and all mode share diverted to a maturely-developed New Milford commuter rail service. The road expansion opponents are just going to tell them again and again to refine their capacity assumptions first, and that's how the commuter rail extension and schedule expansion becomes the default prerequisite and cost of doing business for the Dept. of Asphalt on this ever-controversial stretch of asphalt.

[markffisch]

The discussion of wiring the Danbury branch is IMHO a distraction. The real benefit is extending the line north to New Milford. A stop in Brookfield (near 84 with easy highway access rather than the historic depot which has no room for parking) plus downtown New Milford. Insisting on electrification only raises the cost of the extension, making it less likely. The likely number of runs would not indicate a need for wires, nor would the station spacing. As has been pointed out, the NHL is not going to be all electric anytime soon. It is much easier to extend or add services (CR for Hartford, casino service, whatever you like) if you don't have to string wires to start.
Mark

[DutchRailnut]

you and I will be pushing up worms, long before you see MN go to New Milford.

[Backshophoss]

Gather that the exisiting catenary in the yard and the Danbury branch main was not upgraded to 12.5 kv standards.
How many tracks are to be added and get wire in Dock yard?
Seems that P+W loose Dock yard as a safe haven for freight trains headed to/from Danbury
if the crew is short on(HOS) time to run.

[Jeff Smith]

Local reps not happy; nothing else (SURPRISE!) happening. But WHAT is the pre-occupation with electrification?

Wilton Bulletin

Brief, fair-use quote:

State plans $4 million for branch line

No other funds for at least five years

She emphasized she would like to see a far greater investment on the part of the state in the Danbury and New Canaan branch lines.

“I am not satisfied with the ordering of priorities” in the governor’s transportation plan, she told The Bulletin on Tuesday.

“There are no plans in the next five years for this Danbury line,” she said. “It seems to be a gesture to pacify people when other things are being done.”

...

“Conspicuously absent from the list is the electrification of the Danbury Branch Line, which currently provides 700-800,000 rides a year in a highly traveled, very economically active corridor,” her testimony said. “Despite recent improvements to its signal system, service on the line breaks down constantly, with important incidents every week, sometimes every day. Many commuters … often feel literally like hostages to a railroad that doesn’t work.”

In a statement she issued on Tuesday, Boucher agreed that “electrification is the next big step. That upgrade will be crucial for making the Danbury line compatible with the mainline of Metro-North in Stamford, New Haven and New York. It will take some time and a big effort. But, as I have learned from the past, a squeaky wheel is required and we have more of them every year.”

[Rockingham Racer]

"Local reps not happy; nothing else (SURPRISE!) happening. But WHAT is the pre-occupation with electrification?"

A one-seat ride to GCT perhaps without having to rely on diesels?

[Jeff Smith]

Read the thread; you'll see why electrification does not make sense. They have a one-seat ride. Even in rush, it's not utilized that much.

[Rockingham Racer]

Re-read my post, especially the phrase that includes "without diesels." I'm quite aware of the dual-mode engines that are currently in service.

[DutchRailnut]

electrification would cost at least 200 million for catenary, another 100 million for extra M-8's, another 50 million to redo the signal system current one is DC based.
and all for about 4 minutes savings and same amount of through trains to NY