Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS (Before Launch of Service)

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:36 pm

The People of Conndot still hope and pray that Amtrak will allow the M-8's on shoreline, but still any of those cars still need full ACSES system upgrade.
so splitting the Mafersa's between Springfield line and shoreline would make for very short trains.
Originally 38 cars were for sale by VRE but Conndot only purchased 26.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by F-line to Dudley via Park » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:24 pm

CDOT has 33 Mafersas, not 26. 23 trailers, 10 cabs.

Whether all 33 are active and on rotation right this very second, I don't know. It's always possible with such a glut of them for so many years on SLE that some have been raided for short-term parts to keep fleetwide repair costs down. But all 33 cars remain active-rostered and documented as such by CDOT for FRA reporting purposes, so they've been keeping up with inspections and aren't treating any as body donors to be stripped without possibility of being put back together again. If they've got any currently out-of-rotation OOS units, fresh order of parts for prep-for-service will always be cheaper than renting supplementals from outside of the system.

Note that this is just a Request for Information, not a Request for Proposals. There's no implicit intent to actually act on the information with a pending purchase; they're just seeing what's out there. If somebody happens to have some nearly free properly ADA-dimensioned flats laying around that don't look/smell like a toilet and don't cost that much to prep for service, they'll take special note of any responses they get. But the RFI could be issued with a fully-acknowledged 80% probability up-front that nobody's likely to have anything compliant enough, tolerable-enough quality for passengers, or inexpensive enough to ready for service. It's well quantified what slim pickings are available, that anything picked up from anyone will need new ACSES II signal upgrades/replacements to its cab cars, and that stored units that've missed multiple FRA inspection cycles are pricier per-unit to prep for service than anything maintained on active reserve. In all likelihood the RFI is just going to confirm what we already know. But as a measly couple bucks in paperwork it's money well-spent if it does uncover a potential bargain that increases short-term operating flex while the Mafersas are tasked with a slow, not-fully-complete weaning off from SLE to Hartford.

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Ridgefielder » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:34 am

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Note that this is just a Request for Information, not a Request for Proposals. There's no implicit intent to actually act on the information with a pending purchase; they're just seeing what's out there... In all likelihood the RFI is just going to confirm what we already know. But as a measly couple bucks in paperwork it's money well-spent if it does uncover a potential bargain that increases short-term operating flex while the Mafersas are tasked with a slow, not-fully-complete weaning off from SLE to Hartford.
Or could they be fulfilling a necessary step before issuing a formal RFP for new-build equipment? And yes, before everyone starts yelling at me, I know the State of CT is broke :-)

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BandA
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by BandA » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:15 am

Do IP or M&E have coaches that would be appropriate?

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:28 am

BandA wrote:Do IP or M&E have coaches that would be appropriate?
Doubtful. IP's sets for the Hoosier State had intercity-configured seating, which isn't going to work for CDOT. And plain old excursion stock is too much of a crapshoot on ADA aisle dimension compliance to net all that many coherently configured units via casting a nationwide search.

Literally anyone outside the Northeastern commuter rail agencies (NJT, MBTA, MARC) isn't going to have cab signals in the cab cars, which cuts down the candidate bidders by a lot. Even the cabs like the MBTA MBB cars that require semi-problematic $$$ for ACSES II PTC upgrades are still a bit less expensive to prep for service because of the pre-existing cab signal compatibility than something imported from entirely out-of-region, so slim pickings get very very slim indeed when cab car prep costs have to be factored in.

It's unlikely there's a eureeka fleet hiding under a rock somewhere. The RFI is likely just going to quantify with numbers what we already know about the presently slim aftermarket for flats...but it's a useful filing in and of itself for putting numbers to just how bare/not-bare the cupboard is and quantifying the state of the lease market for CDOT's short-term planning purposes. Better to work from established facts on cost of prep-for-service for each potentially available fleet than to plot the next 2 years of split NHHS/SLE fleet management with little more than guesses about what they could do in a pinch.

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Ryand-Smith » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:04 pm

Could they use a set of Comet Vs? NJ transit is planning on replacing ALL the comets with MLVs so there is a fleet of gently used comet Vs for starter service.

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by EuroStar » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:18 am

Don't count on it. NJT is broke and does not have MLVs or any significant new equipment on order, nor can NJT afford to order anything. Those Comet Vs will be with them for at least another decade and a half, more likely two decades. By then it is only a guess what shape they will be in -- with the lack of money comes less maintenance (other than what is mandated by the FRA) and more running miles. Also the Arrows will come out first, not the Comets.

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:32 am

Operator selected, announcement to follow: MyRecordJournal.com

Article needs a serious edit if you ask me; very disjointed. Fair-use:
DOT official says commuter rail operator has been selected; formal announcement expected from governor
...
Amtrak owns and operates the rail line and is among several operators considered to run CTrail Hartford Line, which is expected to increase rail service between New Haven and Hartford to 17 trains a day, with another 12 trains per day to Springfield.

The DOT is waiting for a final contract with the new operator and a formal announcement from Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, said John Bernick, DOT’s assistant rail administrator.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:49 am

Ryand-Smith wrote:Could they use a set of Comet Vs? NJ transit is planning on replacing ALL the comets with MLVs so there is a fleet of gently used comet Vs for starter service.
NJT's flats-to-bi's replacement plan is stretched out to 2025 (and late as hell starting), and will consist of multiple separate procurements...not one neverending massive one. They've got over 160 cars buy just to replace the 35-year-old Comet IIM's, and another 100 to replace the 21-year-old Comet IV's. The 200 NJT Comet V's and 65 MNRR WoH Comet V's--all 13-15 years old--will end up running their full 25-year initial service life before replacement with how much comes ahead of it in the ordering queue. And they will have to be replaced in a joint NJT/MNRR procurement for sake of NJT being able to shift all its shops away from maintenance of the MNRR units, so there's no way any of those can be lumped together with the options on NJT's IIM & IV replacements.

The V's are basically going to run a full league-average pre-rebuild lifespan to the late-2020's, and then simply won't be rebuilt because:
1) at that point they'll be the last remaining commuter flats in North America and will essentially be unicorns, with an economically non-viable parts supply chain for a full-on rebuilding to +20 more years of extended service.
2) the stainless steel Alstom design update of the V's differs somewhat from the all preceding aluminum wholly-generic Pullman/Bombardier generations of Comets-n'-clones, and hasn't been a rousing success in service (e.g. gripes about rough ride quality, poorer than expected MTBF).
3) The Pullman/Bombardier "classic" generations will be higher-demand on the aftermarket for private & excursion carriers, and may even end up outlasting the Alstom V's in parts supply chain longevity if enough private owners stockpile dispersed coaches and parts on-the-cheap. There's 850+ currently active "classic" Comets between NJT, MNRR/CDOT, MBTA, Amtrak (Horizons), AMT, and SEPTA. Even if 80% of them eventually get cut up there's going to be warehouses and warehouses stocked full of nearly-free parts salvaged to feed through immortality the couple hundred units that trickle down to the private market. Nobody else bought the Alstom design update, so they're just not going to be of much non-scrap interest in those compared to the older gens.

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:48 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:3) The Pullman/Bombardier "classic" generations will be higher-demand on the aftermarket for private & excursion carriers, and may even end up outlasting the Alstom V's in parts supply chain longevity if enough private owners stockpile dispersed coaches and parts on-the-cheap. There's 850+ currently active "classic" Comets between NJT, MNRR/CDOT, MBTA, Amtrak (Horizons), AMT, and SEPTA. Even if 80% of them eventually get cut up there's going to be warehouses and warehouses stocked full of nearly-free parts salvaged to feed through immortality the couple hundred units that trickle down to the private market. Nobody else bought the Alstom design update, so they're just not going to be of much non-scrap interest in those compared to the older gens.
NH2060 wrote:IOne thing is for certain, they won't be either the MARC Is or IIs as some of those are going to the LIRR during the summer for the next 2-3 years while still staying put in Maryland during the off season. And MBTA has no coaches to spare. All that's left is NJ Transit if there are any single levels no longer in revenue service that haven't already been marked for scrap.
Are there some retired MBB coaches stored now? And SEPTA's single level equipment already have a "contract" out on them, as the new bilevels have been ordered, so the latter might find interest.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by nomis » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:46 pm

SEPTA' Bomber cars aren't going anywhere once the CRRC bilevel coaches arrive. Unless they really want to have 13 new ACS-64 locomotives with only 45 CRRC coaches to move around.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:03 pm

Who had "Not Amtrak" as the operator? You win.
Service will be a joint venture of TransitAmerica Services and Alternate Concepts . The company will operate and manage service on the CTrail Hartford Line. Service will begin in May 2018.
Read more here: http://fox61.com/2017/07/24/malloy-to-m ... rain-line/
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by ebtmikado » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:20 pm

As I predicted here in March, ACI got it.
And all the Doubting Thomases didn't believe me.

This outfit has a terrible problem with its workers.
I can't for the life of me see why it was chosen.

Lee

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GirlOnTheTrain
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:33 pm

Here is the actual press release...quote includes a tidbit that the news article I posted earlier did not.
http://portal.ct.gov/en/Office-of-the-G ... tford-Line
Amtrak will remain responsible for maintenance of the railroad infrastructure, including track signals, train dispatching, and right-of-way security. Amtrak’s existing service will not be altered by Hartford Line service. CTrail trains will operate together with Amtrak trains on the rail line to provide seamless Hartford Line service.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Jehochman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:24 pm

ebtmikado wrote:As I predicted here in March, ACI got it.
And all the Doubting Thomases didn't believe me.

This outfit has a terrible problem with its workers.
I can't for the life of me see why it was chosen.

Lee
What is the terrible problem?

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