Metro North WOH Rail Options Using the Tappan Zee Bridge TZB

[SecaucusJunction]

From what I saw on the maps, it looks like the railroad and the airport are just over a mile apart. Therefore if the monorail/light rail/heavy rail goes an average of 20mph, it will be at the terminal in 3 minutes. The MN rail line isnt that slow with 70mph over most of the route. I'm not sure what more you could ask for with a rail line because Metro North trains generally run express from Secaucus to Suffern

[NIMBYkiller]

I think he's suggesting that Stewart may be just a bit too far to make it useful for NYC, which I tend to agree with. However, it will be a good airport for Westchester/Rockland Counties.

And why waste the opportunity for a one seat ride on some idiotic monorail? PANYNJ blew it with EWR TWICE! PATH should be running there. MTA blew it with JFK. They owned a single track ROW into the airport, and decided not to bother with it.

No more stupid connecting monorail/light rail service to the airport. SEPTA has it right with the R1

[SecaucusJunction]

Though from what I am reading, it doesnt look like this is in the big plan, but they could run a monorail type system from the station to directly inside the terminal. This would be very convenient for commuters. This airport could serve both NYC residents and North Jersey/Southeastern NY residents. There is no need for a Tappan Zee Bridge connection as the route that is in place now is probably quicker for travelers. With some improvements to track and express service on the route, this could be made a reality. People will travel a distance for an airport if the fares are cheaper or the probability of delays is much less. Again, I have traveled from Northern NJ to JFK many times for cheaper fares on airlines. That travel time was probably well over the hour and a pain in the neck to get to. Many people I know have done the same. A quick change in Secaucus does not seem to be a problem as that station is growing rapidly as more people find out about it. The total time from NYP to SEC is around 8 minutes. From there on out, its a one seat ride to the airport. This is an idea that could definitely work if the plan is put into effect properly.

[HoboKen bound]

I couldn't agree more with SecJunc. I do a decent amount flying myself. With the PANYNJ taking over the lease, there is going to be a decent amount of effort into expanding the airport to help ease the air traffic to EWR, LGA, and JFK. This is going to be done through cheaper fares at SWF to draw people there. Undoubtably, I will get myself going up to SWF to take advantage of the cheaper fares with increased service. If the MTA will run a decent schedule up there and allow a connection to a monorail/light rail that will bring me to straight to the terminal, you will never see me drive to the airport ever again. Why bother driving when the is system in place to keep me off the road while utlitizing the airport.

With easy connections and a little marketing, people will take advantage of the rail service. After all, doesn't the state give money to the MTA to reduse the amount of traffic on the major roads/highways?

[Dcell]

Could M/N operate a train up/down the present I-287 ROW to/from the existing Tappan Zee Bridge on the Rockland side? The grade seems kinda steep.

[JoeG]

According to the Alternatives reports, posted on the tbsite.com, the grades on I287 would be too steep for commuter rail but would accommodate light rail. To me this means it would also accommodate MU electric operation. I don't know if they included options for having an electric commuter railroad or if they envisioned dual-mode engines. You can read the alternatives documents here.

[NIMBYkiller]

SecaucusJunction, Tappan Zee rail, I believe, is mostly for cross westchester service, since that where most of the bridge traffic is going. And I ask again, why make a connecting service to the airport when the opportunity is there to run the train itself to the terminals? Again, look at SEPTAs R1. It's a commuter line that goes to all the terminals.

[Dcell]

I don't know but is there thought that a new TZB will have to be elevated along its entire length over the Hudson River to allow movement of ships? I ask because the approach to an elevated bridge could mean a less severe grade going up/down to the bridge from the Rockland Co. side. If the Coast Guard requires 60 or 70 feet of clearance under the new TZB, I could see how commuter train operations would benefit from less severe grades? Any idea, Joe or anyone?

[Erie-Lackawanna]

Now why wouldn't you add this to the thread that's already discussing this topic???

[Otto Vondrak]

The discussion is the TAPPAN ZEE BRIDGE, not Stewart or any other proposed service. Last warning to stay on topic.

-otto-

[CComMack]

Service to Stewart Airport was an explicit part of alternatives analysis on the Tappan Zee Corridor study. Presumably, White Plains is seen as a major source of potential passengers at SWF, assuming (as is likely) that local opposition keeps traffic at HPN restricted.

If this argument is seen as insufficient by the mods, ObTZB: If a light rail option is chosen on the White Plains-Suffern corridor, requiring one or two changes for Port Jervis service, how badly will this hurt Stewart Airport ridership as opposed to commuter rail to Suffern via the Piermont Branch?

[NIMBYkiller]

As long as Stewart is done with heavy rail and served by MN trains DIRECTLY ala Philly Int'l and NOT as a monorail or light rail like EWR and JFK, I think there will still be a fairly strong potential for ridership. It's when you start adding a 2nd and 3rd transfer that you're going to have problems. Granted, a two seat ride will be less attractive than a one seat, and Coach USA will see the opportunity and seize it, but I still think you'll have folks who will do it. Hopefully it wont come to this and it will be heavy rail to atleast White Plains.

Are the grade problems E of White Plains or W?

[Frank]

I think that they should build tracks on the new Tappan Zee bridge for heavy rail so it would connect with the Port Jervis and Spring Valley branches and would have connections to the MN Hudsen and Harlem lines thus enabling riders on those branches to have a one-seat ride to Manhattan. Allowing MN trains to use the Empire Connection to Penn Station that Amtrak currently uses would be a good idea since the Park Ave line to GCT would be taxed to the limit with the new service. It would be nice if Amtrak trains also use the bridge so that people in the communites west of the Hudson like Kingston, Newburgh, ete have train service to New York and Albany. Two tracks over the bridge would be sufficient.

[Jeff Smith]

There's no feasible physical connection to Hudson or Harlem lines due to grade and visual impact. Lots of grade issues, both sides of the river, on the 87/287 corridor. All previously suggested, discussed, and discarded, at least on here, although some will regurgitate it to make it sound original. Certainly I wasn't the first to think it and state the obvious, and I'm sure that's been considered in the study.

For any commuter line to be worth it, it has to go downtown WP. No place to put heavy rail on 119/Tarrytown Rd, or Hamilton or Main Streets. Unless you can link at 287 to Harlem, no chance for heavy rail into WP. I just don't see it happening with the separation between the 287 viaduct and the Harlem line. It seems like light rail is the best option, and NJT proved it could be done.

That leaves light rail across the corridor. That, I think, is feasible. It's a shame, because I think heavy rail across the corridor with a link to NH line is an attractive option, but it would pass north of downtown WP. If they can find a way for that to work, more power to them.

As I've learned on here, the one-seat ride option to GCT is over-rated and capacity, particularly peak, is over-taxed on the Park Av viaduct. I didn't think so at first either, but have learned otherwise. It's a shame, because it would be desirable. As for Penn, forget it. Of course, I've been called a pathetic wimp for daring to betray my rail-fan roots by saying so.

What would the potential time savings into NYC be with Secaucus Junction available? Besides, West-of-Hudson lines will access THE, the new NJT terminal. It's not GCT, but it's direct.

[SecaucusJunction]

Well I dont know much about the White Plains area but I do know that there is no feasible way to drop the tracks from the Tappan Zee Bridge ( or replacement) to the Hudson Line. If you are going to run a train up the Harlem Line, hang a left hand turn at the Thruway, go through the rest of Westchester, over the Bridge, and through the entire county of Rockland, you're going to turn a 1 hour commute into a 2 hour commute. I really doubt there would be any feasible way that people would use this service to get to Stewart Airport either. For west of Hudson service, it would appear that Secaucus Jct would still be the best way to go.