MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by nomis » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:42 am

Mod Note: Can we get back to the MTA-Siemens portion of this thread.
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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by Tadman » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:57 am

docsteve wrote:It is not a silly ultimatum to NYS's taxpayers: they would like to see a company that fails to comply with a state contract held accountable. They may say that this type of action is long overdue, and that low-balling a bid just to get a "too big to fail" contract will not be rewarded by not cancelling the contract.

Just saying.
Accountable for what? It was a doomed project from the start that has seen multiple government snafus resulting in repeat extensions and lots of empty threats. PTC was literally a concept on a napkin when it was mandated by congress, and NYS taxpayers along with all other US taxpayers elected the idiots that mandated it. Meanwhile, tragedies like Valhalla will continue to occur because PTC does not actually address the vast majority of deaths on railroad property, that of grade crossings and trespassers.

The only people that should be held accountable are the elected officials that made this farce up.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by Kurt » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:14 pm

If Siemens were to be removed from the project, would another company have to start from scratch? Or could they use parts already installed, or are the different companies systems incomaptible?

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:14 pm

no one knows, its not even know if they fire these companies if other companies can fill gap, or if they are compatible.
and I do not believe the Feds will give MTA more breathing room, looks to me as if they are painting themselves into corner.
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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by EuroStar » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:23 am

This is just grandstanding by the MTA board to make themselves look better so that the commuters and the politicos do not give them too much grief. Siemens will not be fired because then they better get ready to explain why come January 2021 the trains are not running. Anyone who thinks that they can fire Siemens and find a replacement contractor that can finish the job by the federal deadline better check their own head first.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by jlr3266 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:15 pm

The possibility of one of the few other companies capable of installing PTC are going to come in late and make use of the incompatible Siemens work is about zero.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:47 pm

I hope that Siemens can provide the next dual mode locomotives for MNR. It seems like Siemens has been doing great with providing replacement diesel locomotives for commuter railroads such as MARC. I know that Coaster will be getting them down the road. If Metro North were to get Siemens for their dual mode power, they would probably do well handing multilevel sets. Yes, the Genesis units would have trouble handling six or seven car multilevel sets, especially with acceleration.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:13 pm

say whoat /
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by Tadman » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 pm

Chinese trains are just not that great. They have been a moderate disaster in Buenos Aires where most commuter trains are recent CRRC and CSR products. There are so many electric MU's and diesels permanently laid up at Escalada it's not funny. At the time I toured their big backshop, they were all about four years old and the Chinese were not providing very good support and many units were toast for good.

If you think the Rotem/SEPTA thing was a mistake, Buenos Aires is having a much bigger problem. I'd be hesitant to order anything from CRRC until the Boston and Chicago orders prove themselves over five years.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by Tadman » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:30 pm

jlr3266 wrote:The possibility of one of the few other companies capable of installing PTC are going to come in late and make use of the incompatible Siemens work is about zero.
Completely agreed. MTA dumps Siemens and you're set back years if not a decade. Would be really bad news.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by Nasadowsk » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:19 pm

Tadman wrote: If you think the Rotem/SEPTA thing was a mistake, Buenos Aires is having a much bigger problem. I'd be hesitant to order anything from CRRC until the Boston and Chicago orders prove themselves over five years.
While I agree on CRRC, honestly, I'm not sure what the big deal with the SL Vs is. I've been on them, they seem no better/worse than any other railcar in use in the US. Interestingly, their big issue was with the US-sourced and designed trucks. Go figure. I put it up there with the PL-42 - a functional piece of equipment people want to hate because they want to. Slap a Bombardier or Kawasaki logo on it, it's sexy for whatever reason...

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by Tadman » Thu May 02, 2019 3:18 pm

Agreed, I've never been up to speed on the Rotem issues.

We also had that same hate for the MP36 in Chicago. If you believed the buffs, the sky was falling and falling for five years. It all dried up. Sixteen years later, they're running plenty of trains on the Rock with the MP, as is LA Metrolink, MARC, VRE, and Toronto GO.

I also remember the crews on the South Shore were predicting imminent demise of the Nippon Sharyo fleet at 10 years old, around 1992. Here we are approaching 40 years and they're rolling hot, with multiple add-on orders totalling 85 cars. Most legacy EMU fleets lasted about 55 years and were utterly shot at that point.

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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by nomis » Thu May 02, 2019 4:12 pm

Cross Posting an MBTA focused article for Siemens. Quite a lot of the issues they have are on the Northern side of the system, which does not have cab signaling with ACSES II installation. Some info can be found in this thread.

Equipment problems hamper key commuter rail safety project
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/ ... story.html
Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority officials are worried the agency will miss a key deadline to install a federally required safety system on the commuter rail, with testing of the long-planned system delayed by an equipment issue.

Other agencies have faced struggles with Siemens equipment. [...] Siemens has issued two nationwide recalls related to the hardware problem in recent months.

In Massachusetts, the problem has delayed testing for the project on the northern side of the commuter rail, said Karen Antion, the MBTA’s project manager.

The southern side seems to be less of an issue because it has different signaling equipment and requires less rigorous testing, the MBTA said. But even minor software updates could cause delays because Siemens is taking months to process them. The MBTA recently received Siemens equipment back from recall, and so far the results have not been promising.
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Re: MTA gives PTC contractor ultimatum - Newsday

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu May 02, 2019 6:55 pm

note MBTA did not do anything till last deadline and are way off playing catch up.
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