Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

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Train322
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Train322 » Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 pm

As mentioned, it would be nice but the cost would be significant.

One idea, if the money was available - extend Danbury line to what would be Danbury north - near the 84/7 intersection.
Not sure what the condition of the double track is from Danbury station to the Danbury north site and what the cost would be. Of course, cost for building a station and parking along with working with the freight railroad is needed.

Perhaps revenue from an I 84 toll at the state-lne would help.
With respect to tolls, I think increasing the gas tax makes more sense. Having a toll, one in a county to get revenue from trucks would be better than every six miles.

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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by NIMBYkiller » Tue May 21, 2019 12:39 pm

I'd be curious to see what percentage of Danbury area residents work in places along the Harlem Line (IE, White Plains, etc) vs work in places along the current route (Stamford, etc). GCT travel times will be a draw at best, but if there's enough non-GCT movement to justify this, then there's your reason for being. As already mentioned, 84/684 interchange sucks, and 84 itself gets pretty rough at times.

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Tue May 21, 2019 12:42 pm

Train322 wrote:With respect to tolls, I think increasing the gas tax makes more sense. Having a toll, one in a county to get revenue from trucks would be better than every six miles.
A truck only toll is quite possible. The NY State Thruway has one in Spring Valley for commercial traffic only.
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am

Train322 wrote: Not sure what the condition of the double track is from Danbury station to the Danbury north site and what the cost would be.
Condition: not great. https://goo.gl/maps/kAY4tdGCDdsbN2eZ7
Train322 wrote:Perhaps revenue from an I 84 toll at the state-lne would help.
With respect to tolls, I think increasing the gas tax makes more sense. Having a toll, one in a county to get revenue from trucks would be better than every six miles.
Not 100% sure but my assumption is that any tolls that will be implemented will be cashless and gate-less, like the tolls on the Thruway at Suffern or the NYC bridges. Here's the one on the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge, for example: https://goo.gl/maps/FbaJYLRLGNBjwivUA. If you have a E-Z Pass transponder on your car it bills your account; if you don't, it takes a picture of your license plate and you get a bill in the mail. Either way, the traffic keeps moving: you don't face the old problem of traffic jams at the booths.

Like it or not, this is the future of highway revenue. It's a knock-on effect of increased fuel efficiency in internal combustion engines and the increasing use of electric vehicles. Gas taxes nationwide are bringing in less and less money since they're levied on a per-gallon basis and the US vehicle fleet is using fewer gallons of gasoline per mile traveled.

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GirlOnTheTrain
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Thu May 30, 2019 2:34 pm

Train322 wrote: Of course, cost for building a station and parking along with working with the freight railroad is needed...
That's the problem, HRRC wants extortionist prices for track rights, if not buying out that portion of the line entirely - they still own that stretch, up to about Boardman's Bridge in New Milford I believe. HRRC and CDOT have a salty relationship at best, the particulars of which have been discussed elsewhere on this forum.
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NaugyRR
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by NaugyRR » Fri May 31, 2019 2:16 pm

The way the track ownership is set up is pretty weird. They own up to Boardman's Bridge from Danbury and Derby Jct., then the CT DoT owns it up to the Mass. line, and now Mass. DoT owns all of the trackage within the Commonwealth.
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Backshophoss
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Backshophoss » Fri May 31, 2019 9:17 pm

ConnDOY need to grab the Maybrook remains away from HRRC,as it is HRRC has taken ConnDOT $$$$$ and DID NOTHING.
Managers of HRRC are ex-Guilford exec's with a "Scorched Earth" mentality,lost all freight rights on MN's Harlem line,and left a mess behind
for MN to clean up.
IS known to be hostile to Shared freight rights in Danbury proper with P&W,has allowed too much of the Maybrook line go to seed and rot.
There's legal action still pending between P&W/HRRC on access via Derby Jct to Danbury.
Basicly,ConnDOT needs to evict HRRC from Danbury.ASAP!
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:38 am

you promoting Government seizure of private business ?? forgot what we call that but its very un-American.
As for freight rights MN arranged for that to be bought out.
State of CT had option to buy Danbury cluster but had no interest .
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by andrewjw » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:57 am

DutchRailnut wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:38 am
you promoting Government seizure of private business ?? forgot what we call that but its very un-American.
As for freight rights MN arranged for that to be bought out.
State of CT had option to buy Danbury cluster but had no interest .
Railroads are not the same as most public businesses. They're given special allowances but also special regulations by the government because not just anyone can build a new one to compete and form natural monopolies (or oligopolies). When they violate their obligations to the public under these regulations they should no longer have the right to operate independently of government intervention.

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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:21 am

How about we resurrect the New York Westchester and Boston Railway North plans? :wink:
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radioman2001
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by radioman2001 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Quote"
Like it or not, this is the future of highway revenue. It's a knock-on effect of increased fuel efficiency in internal combustion engines and the increasing use of electric vehicles. Gas taxes nationwide are bringing in less and less money since they're levied on a per-gallon basis and the US vehicle fleet is using fewer gallons of gasoline per mile traveled.

Not entirely true, people are also using Mass Transit in record numbers because of tolls, parking, etc. NYCTA is bursting at the seams, and they are trying to run more trains than ever before by switching from block signal to some sort of AI between cars. Even off peak the cars are packed.

Also maybe if highway taxes were ACTUALLY used for highway projects. Remember the 5 cents a gallon increase in Federal gas tax years ago, it was supposed to go to bridges and highways, well it never did it went right into General funds. Just like the up and coming Mid-Town toll is going to. Both the Whitestone and Throggs Neck bridges have been payed off for decades, yet the tolls are funding Mass transit.
Stop stealing Highway funds for pet projects and Mass transit, make Transit charge what it costs to run. The last numbers I saw was a NYCTA ride was over $6.00 not $2.50. So now the drivers will make up the difference in tolls.
A better solution is to make the Subways free and have it paid for by business and individual income taxes. This way everybody pays fairly, and this way you will actually get something for your taxes

TDowling
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by TDowling » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:32 am

The Harlem Line is generally speaking more convenient than the Danbury spur, that is, if one is willing to drive that distance. My cousin lives in Bethel and she takes the train from Purdys often, as many of the trains are not direct to GCT.

While a connection may potentially save people like her from having to drive, nonetheless theres the interstate logistics which throws a sizable monkey wrench into the whole proposal. Although i may be wrong, the procurement of M8 New Haven Line trains from what i reckon were sorely delayed because of interstate logistics. Commuters in the meanwhile were forced to put up with subpar equipment. NJT and Metro North also tend to clash heads west of hudson on the Port Jervis and Pascack Valley Lines, which makes for commuter agita.

TDowling
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by TDowling » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:00 am

What exactly is Housatonic Railroad HRRC and do they have sufficient political and financial clout to sway MNRR?

Backshophoss
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Backshophoss » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:38 pm

HRRC is a private held shortline,manged by a bunch of ex-Guilford Ry execs,have wasted ConnDOT Grants,are engaged in a lawsuit
with the P&W on access to their customers in the Danbury area via Derby Jct,at odds with Metro North to the point of banning
any train operation by MN on their trackage,have "Landlocked" the Berkshire scenic to their passing siding.
Lost their freight operation rights on MN's Harlem Line.
Controls most of the "Berkshire line" to Pittsfield Ma(State line to Pittsfield is now MassDOT owned)
Owns/controls the Maybrook from the NYS stateline to Derby Jct,most trackage now OOSand allowed to go to seed.
Has an ongoing Fantasy of running passenger service,Danbury-New Milford-Canaan-Pittsfield.
Has a "Scortched earth" policy if they leave,barely able to provide service at present time!
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

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