MNRR West of Hudson (WoH) Study - Stewart Airport

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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harmon44

Post by harmon44 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:13 pm

I have never heard of any plans for rail to Westchester airport. Any plans in that direction would be a waste of money. The NIMBY's would never let it happen. They can't stand the airport now. They have the money and the power to stop any expansion plans there.

JoeG

Post by JoeG » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:27 pm

There was an earlier thread on this topic, I forget where. As I recall, there is a big elevation difference between Stewart and the Graham Line. It may be a short distance as the crow flies, but the RR route would be much longer.
The TZ project seems stalled by local politics, NIMBYS and lack of money. Also, every time it is talked about, the cost estimate rises spectacularly.
I think the best we can do for Stewart, for at least the next generation or so, is improve, maybe double track the Graham line, improve Bergen line, run faster service to SEC and HOB, run a shuttle bus route from Stewart to the Graham Line. If demand warranted, a new station could be built.

Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:26 pm

Stewart is actually a wonderful candidate for a freight only airport. Move the crowded cargo operations out of JFK and up into a place at the junction of the Thruway and I-84. I'd suggest they could relay the Maybrook track and be a lot closer to Stewart and I-84.

jacksons
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Post by jacksons » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:36 pm

I had heard the same thing a few years ago, re: Stewart becoming a Air Freight Hub and using the Maybrook Line. What a good idea, but it will probably never get off of the ground because of the usual politics of the Greens and the Green$.(Maybe if it runs on Fabreez and only transports baby seals and spotted owls it would have a chance)

Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:38 pm

jacksons wrote:(Maybe if it runs on Fabreez and only transports baby seals and spotted owls it would have a chance)

:-D :-D

Tom Curtin
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Stewart

Post by Tom Curtin » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:18 am

It sure seems to me the amount of air traffic (flights per day) serving Stewart does not come close to justifying investing in any kind of rail connection. And I have trouble picturing Stewart ever becoming anything beyond a minor air service presence in the New York area simply becaust of distance from NY. I have had to travel on business to many far flung locations, including some cities where the major airport is (IMO) ridiculously far* from the city hub, but I think I can categorically state I've never been anyplace served by an airport as far as Stewart is (70 miles or thereabouts) from New York!


__________________
*I'm thinking of places like Narita, Japan; Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia; Malpensa (Milan), Italy; and here in the US, the new Denver airport.

jacksons
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Post by jacksons » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:36 pm

I had read an article in the NYT (don't remember the date) re: moving freight opertations out of JFK to Stewart. The basis of this move was "Homeland Security" and a rail freight hub was included. It sounds like a logical idea, like the freight only tunnel from Bay Ridge, but watch the politics and the $$$$$, unfortunately, that changes everything. :wink: :wink:

drewh
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Post by drewh » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:53 pm

Dont think the Port Authority would like this plan either not to mention NYC and NJ, as it would take revenue's away from them.

As for airport distances from city centre:
JFK - 16 miles
EWR - 13miles
DEN - 16 miles - not far at all!!
LAX - 18 miles
SFO - 18 miles
Both BWI & IAD to DC - 30 miles

YYZ - Toronto - 17 miles
YMX - old Mirabel Airport Montreal - now closed because too far away - 31 miles. Mirabel was open for only 29 years. It was built as a replacement for Dorval (now Trudeau). People never liked the distance. Dorval remained open and became the international airport once again a few years back.

NRT - Tokyo Narita - 40 miles
KUL - Kuala Lumpur - 34 miles
KIX - Osaka Kansai - on a man made island - 30 miles
HKG - Chek Lap Kok Hong Kong - 21 miles

PVG - Pudong Shanghai - this has the new Maglev train - its only 19 miles.

So looks like NRT, KUL, and the old YMX take the lead as the worlds most remote airports from the city centre. No way you can expect Stewart to take off (no pun intended) when its some 70 miles from Manhattan, unless of course we can get a Maglev train like Pudong that travels 300 miles per hour. That train takes 8 mins to make the journey, so an equivalent ride to Stewart with a couple additional stops either in NJ or Westchester and Rockland might take about 30 mins.

kinlock
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Post by kinlock » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:15 am

Denver did the right thing going from 0 miles to 16 miles.

Montreal screwed up and is stuck with an archaic, disfunctional airport.

Now - how about travel times?

LGA, JFK and EWR look OK on paper (distance-wise), but travel times tell a different story.

drewh
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Post by drewh » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:49 am

Well DEN was never really 0 miles. Just because it was in the city limits doesn't mean it was downtown. Stapleton was actually 5-6 miles from downtown.

LGA - never easy. Could be 15 mins - could be an hour.
EWR - 23 mins from Penn Sta, about 30 mins from WTC.
JFK - about 45 mins from Penn Sta.

So how about cities with the closest airports??

BOS - 3 miles - 3 stops on the Blue line.
DCA - 3 miles - 4 stops on the Metro Yellow line.
EWR - 3 miles to both Eliz and NWK - 1 stop on NJ Transit.

Nester
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Post by Nester » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:57 pm

drewh wrote:Dont think the Port Authority would like this plan either not to mention NYC and NJ, as it would take revenue's away from them.
Are you sure that NYC would lose? I was under the impression that the leases they signed with the PA were not based on volume. NJ would lose since they could not share in the additional money the PA would get, as Stewart Airport is outside of their jurisdiction.

[I'm under the impression that the Tappan-Zee bridge was built between Tarrytown and Nyack for the same reason]

Nester

JoeG

Post by JoeG » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:27 pm

The Tappan Zee was built where it is because, in the early fifties, the PA was just building the lower deck of the George Washington Bridge, and was worried there wouldn't be enough traffic to fill it (!). As a result, it opposed another Hudson River crossing. The Tappan Zee bridge was built just past the PA's jurisdiction, where the PA couldn't veto the bridge.

Ken W2KB
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Proposed passenger extention to Stewart Airport

Post by Ken W2KB » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:14 pm

The Port Authority of NY and NJ announced that it is considering developing Stewart Airport in Orange County as a base for diverting some jet traffic from Teterboro Airport. Part of the plan is to construct an approximately 4 mile connection to the Port Jervis Line for passenger service to/from the airport.
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]

henry6

WASNT THIS

Post by henry6 » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:38 pm

Wasn't this base to become a major NY area passenger airport in some plans floated back in the 70's and 80's? Are those plans dead or are they being revived by this idea? And the rail connection: to the West Shore track (ok, CSX River Line) or rebuild the Erie branch and connect to the Port Jervis Main Line?

JBlaisdell
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Post by JBlaisdell » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:13 pm

an approximately 4 mile connection to the Port Jervis Line for passenger service to/from the airport.

Not the River Line- my guess is somewhere near/east of Campbell Hall.

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