Quiz...

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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3rdrail
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Re: Quiz...

Post by 3rdrail » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:44 pm

Teamdriver wrote: and for that matter , the Meridian street bridge
YES ! Nicely done, Kev !!! You perceptively recognized the Meridian Street Bridge ! 10 points ! This was one of those questions where, if you didn't know Eastie, that you'd have to know the car's route, then go to a pocket map guide or a station map. I suspect that Kev knows Easta Bos ! Nice links there for the Boston bridges too. That's one for the "favorites file".

SP - I'm not sure if this is the "official" name of the logo but it is the commonly used name for it still.

Ok,

→ ------ and ----- ←

6) This darn form wants to know if the MTA logo on the car needs to be updated. There's a couple of types here. It's called ------ --- ----- ?
8) What are those upside-down pans above the overhead by the front of 5714 ?
9) What do they do ?

We're getting down to the wire !
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dieciduej
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Re: Quiz...

Post by dieciduej » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:17 pm

3rdrail wrote:
Teamdriver wrote: and for that matter , the Meridian street bridge
YES ! Nicely done, Kev !!! You perceptively recognized the Meridian Street Bridge ! 10 points ! This was one of those questions where, if you didn't know Eastie, that you'd have to know the car's route, then go to a pocket map guide or a station map. I suspect that Kev knows Easta Bos ! Nice links there for the Boston bridges too. That's one for the "favorites file".
I'm confused regarding the name of the bridge, it could be I only remember the bridges of Chelsea of the '70s too today. Here is a Google image of the Chelsea St bridge on the East Boston side which matches your image. Which would conflict with the route and the destination sign.
Chelsea St Bridge.jpg
It's probably my confusion.

JoeD
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atsf sp
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Re: Quiz...

Post by atsf sp » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:45 pm

I have to agree with dieciduej. This is the bridge I referenced in my answer since it is now no longer there. It matches the picture because the meridian Street bridge does not match girder wise. 117 went over this bridge and not the Meridian St. bridge. The meridian street car route(114) which ended just around the bridge and did not continue to Revere Beach.
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3rdrail
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Re: Quiz...

Post by 3rdrail » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:21 pm

It is confusing, there's no doubt about it. First up, the #117 did go over the Meridian Street Bridge. It's documented. (see p.168, Bradley Clarke's "Streetcar Lines of the Hub" book or a vintage MTA map and route listing). However, from the photos I am looking at, I have to agree with you that the bridge in the photo does look more like the Chelsea St. Bridge. On the other hand, we have a Type 5 on a bridge which is signed on its rear rollsign;
REVERE BEACH
CHELSEA - BEACH ST.
which is definitely the #117, and if so, should be on the Meridian, not the Chelsea St. Bridge. The tanker would be headed towards Chelsea Creek and the petroleum holding tanks either way. Might this be a car whose motorman has left a prior routes sign on the rear end ? (Remember, the car looped at Revere Loop.) Might this have been a deadhead move to Everett Shops ? I can only go by what photos, maps, and books tell me, so unless somebody knows for sure, everyone who mentioned the Chelsea Street Bridge gets an additional 10 points.
Latest tally;

SP - 40
Joe - 30
Kev 20
Domenic - 20
Urbie - 10
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Leo Sullivan
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Re: Quiz...

Post by Leo Sullivan » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:33 pm

The Meridian St. Bridge was closed for quite a while right near the end
of the streetcar era. It was, I believe changed from a swing bridge to a double bascule.
During that time all the lines from Maverick through Chelsea had to use the Chelsea St. Bridge.
The tanker is moored (no wash, no tugs) and the background is not the hill above Marginal St.
nor is it the harbor so. it doesn't look like Meridian St. It doesn't look like the newer (or the old)
Meridian St. Bridge either.
LS

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Re: Quiz...

Post by 3rdrail » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:36 pm

I think that we have resolved the points for questions answered issue to everyone's satisfaction - (??) That could be the answer Leo, the problem here being that without a date to rely on, even if we knew when the Meridian was out, we wouldn't know if it was out when our photo was taken except that it was in the ?????? & ????? logo MTA era.(I see smoke emanating from the tanker's funnel- you don't think that it could be moving at a snails pace ? I thought that a regulation would not allow idling next to gas rigs. (??))

Anyway, down to three last questions. Everyone's learning something from this one ! Always an adventure ! Got to run- I hear Jessica calling from the boudoir !

Pick a question that you would like answered that is left. Popular vote selects it. I'll answer it tomorrow. All you need is a post with the corresponding number.

6) This darn form wants to know if the MTA logo on the car needs to be updated. There's a couple of types here. It's called ------ --- ----- ?
8) What are those upside-down pans above the overhead by the front of 5714 ?
9) What do they do ?
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MaineCoonCat
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Re: Quiz...

Post by MaineCoonCat » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:54 pm

3rdrail wrote: 8) What are those upside-down pans above the overhead by the front of 5714 ?
9) What do they do ?
Just a guess.. I'm having a bit of trouble really seeing fine detail in the photo, but;
#8 - Drawbridge frog?
#9 - Facilitate the trolley shoe or wheel's passage across the gap required in the contact wire so the moveable portion of the bridge structure can be raised or lowered?
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Re: Quiz...

Post by 3rdrail » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:12 pm

♫Papa was a rolling stone...wherever he layed his hat was his home...and when he died, all he left us was alone♪
Sorry, papa, close but no cigar ! Pick a number before you go to bed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjJFT8TL1cI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Leo Sullivan
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Re: Quiz...

Post by Leo Sullivan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:02 am

The bridge closure went on so long that it was for much of the MTA trolley time in east Boston.
It went on so long that it was on the map. Here's a couple of map excerpts which show the
situation. The next map (1952) the trolleys were gone. I believe that cars operated over the new
Meridian St. Bridge for a short while though. This shows how they did operate before and during
the closure. An awful lot depended on the Chelsea St. Bridge at that time and it did sometimes
have problems.
Even today, transit and drawbridges don't mix well.
No tankers allowed under way in Chelsea Creek without a tug.
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joshg1
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Re: Quiz...

Post by joshg1 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:11 am

I thought the "pans" above the wires were to protect energized wires from debris from above, or from the energized wire striking what was/is above if the tension is disturbed. I looked through my own photos and did not find any under concrete bridges/ceilings, so I'm going to guess they were just used under metal. As I recall the wires on lift bridges fit into connectors (?-awkward) that fit over and contact the energized wires on either side. Which is to say there is no feed on the movable section- that part being fed from the approaches.

Nor did I see any under Amtrak's AC catenary at Readville or New Haven. This is the only photo I have- at Silver Line Way (just meant to be abstract). The Harvard portal on Mt Auburn has no pans.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/newmundane/7842681722

3rdrail
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Re: Quiz...

Post by 3rdrail » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:28 pm

You didn't quite answer the question, Josh, but your post is excellent with the only fault being defining the "pans". I believe that your photo does indeed show "wire protectors" to shield the overhead from debris. This is not the function of the pan-like objects seen on our photo and on many bridges and railway crossings. Your observation that none were observed at Amtrak was superb ! So much so, it's a great clue. 10 points for that ! 10 points to Joe and Leo for the info !

Hahaha!!! I was just laughing that Jessica Rabbit got more than 200 views overnight ! hahaha!!!


SP - 40
Joe - 40
Kev - 20
Domenic - 20
Urbie - 10
Josh - 10
Leo - 10
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MaineCoonCat
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Re: Quiz...

Post by MaineCoonCat » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:39 pm

8) What are those upside-down pans above the overhead by the front of 5714 ?
9) What do they do ?
One last try
8) Wooden channels [troughs]
9) Prevent any contact with the steel structure thus avoiding a scene similar to a Godzilla movie. [I'm thinking this would also serve to minimize damage to the shoe (or wheel) and pole in the event of dewiring.]

A clear example of what I'm talking about can be found about ½ way down the page here

Image
On the above linked page, Joseph Brennan
An undated photo shows the terminal in operation sometime before 1935. The separate stairs to each loop are still in place. The entire space is paved to rail level, simulating a street terminal. The trolley wires are protected by wooden channels from any contact with the steel structure.
Seen behind the motorman on the inside wall of a PCC departing "Riverside" many years ago: "Pickpockets are on duty for your convenience."

dieciduej
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Re: Quiz...

Post by dieciduej » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:54 pm

A favor to ask 3rdrail, if 8 and 9 still not answered correctly can you highlight the upside-down pans in the photo? It maybe something I am not seeing because there is an downside-up pan in the way. :P

JoeD
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3rdrail
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Re: Quiz...

Post by 3rdrail » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:22 pm

Ask and ye shall receive:

(Note that this is the Ohio Brass version. I'm sure that other companies made this item also, perhaps shaped differently.)
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dieciduej
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Re: Quiz...

Post by dieciduej » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:37 pm

Well that's a horse of a different color!

They are to prevent the trolley contact from hitting the bridge structure if the is a dewirement. Also they are energized so that the streetcar can continue to move and not lose power.

They are common over railroad crossings. Thanks for the visual clarification, I was blinded my Jessica!

JoeD
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