Beacon Junction (Green Line) Derailment 6/8/2019

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Re: 2019 Subway Delay Thread

Post by Type 7 3684 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:15 am

Green Line experiencing delays of up to 15 minutes due to a derailed train near Kenmore. Shuttle buses from Kenmore to Saint Marys and Kenmore to Fenway. Please allow extra time for the buses to arrive.
Per photos on Twitter, looks like 3847 derailed between Fenway and Kenmore.

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Beacon Junction (Green Line) Derailment 6/8/2019

Post by dbperry » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:37 am

Around 11 AM on Saturday 6/8/19 a type 8 (#3847) derailed between Kenmore and Fenway.

Way too early for me to be making this speculation, but this picture (third and fourth at the link) really makes it look like it split the switch to the Riverside branch.

The same passenger reported it was a one car train outbound from Kenmore to Riverside.

https://twitter.com/bryan_marden/status ... 6866644992
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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by nomis » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am

Trolley 3847, per another photo by the same Twitter user. Also, @universalhub is reporting that all of the injured people are out of the tunnel.

https://twitter.com/bryan_marden/status ... 6747938818
https://twitter.com/bryan_marden/status ... 6756346881
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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by dbperry » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:40 am

On page 13, on the picture on the right hand side, my wife is in the purple fleece next to me in my brown jacket...during a drill at almost exactly the same spot as today's derailment.

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/file ... df#page=13
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Re: 2019 Subway Delay Thread

Post by Adams_Umass_Boston » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:57 am


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Re: 2019 Subway Delay Thread

Post by Disney Guy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:08 pm

A derailment of the same routing at the same location (Riverside outbound, Kenmore to Fenway, in the Beacon Junction) happened a few years ago.

Today, one set of pictures seems to show the first truck going straight (to Beacon St) apparently because the train was going too fast for the switch to flip to the Riverside branch on the left. The switch flipped in time for the middle truck to take the turn, splitting the switch, and then the middle of the train was dragged off the track to the right to follow the front half and to hit the divider between the inbound and outbound Beacon St. tracks in the junction. The train came to a stop with the rear also making the left turn.

The last time it happened the switch must have already been/become set for Fenway/Riverside since the train began the left turn and a moment later it went off the track due to centrifugal force from excessive speed.

Many decades ago there was a crash in NYC where a switch mysteriously flipped under the 9'th car of a train and that car was dragged across an upcoming divider between the two diverging subway tracks. When all was said and done one side of that car was crushed to be about 2 feet from the other side in places, with much loss of life and limb.
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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by johnpbarlow » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:05 am

Article from WCVB:
Cause of Saturday Green Line derailment 'was not a mechanical or infrastructure issue'
https://www.wcvb.com/article/cause-of-s ... e/27870703

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by Disney Guy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:45 am

(copied from another forum) One of the riders on the train and who made some comments had said the train was going at a high rate of speed. So either the front truck picked the switch to go straignt (to Beacon St. and Cleveland Circle) or hit the switch before the switch completed its throw to the left (for RIverside). The rest of the train took the left turn.

At least one picture that can be linked to suggested that the train had started to go straight to Beacon St.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by bostontrainguy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:53 am

This is a strange one. If it was a Riverside train then of course the front of the train would have gone left after the AVI read the destination, but I believe there is a safeguard built into the system that does not allow the points to be thrown if a train is occupying the switch. The train would have to be moving a bit fast to have the two front trucks pass the switch before the track is thrown. I don't know if this has happened before.

In most cases I would say wait for the investigation before making any judgement, but looking at this I think you can make some observations. The train should practically stop or crawl up to the signal while the switch points set and then it would receive the left turn signal. I think this is going to be operator error/excessive speed. Being an overcrowded Red Sox game crowd he/she might have been distracted. Now enter the double-edge sword of the magical white line that you aren't supposed to let anyone stand in front of, and the T's non support of their operators enforcement of this rule, and the operators can't win. Passengers standing in the doorway could possibly block the signal but certainly not the switch and who sent out a single car for a weekend Red Sox game anyway?

Now this interlocking was recently rebuilt so it's new and maybe something isn't working right, but that would be unlikely. It's going to be operator error. If the front of the train was heading towards Riverside and the rear started heading to Beacon Street, then I would say it was a mechanical issue.

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by Disney Guy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:18 am

The middle truck was on the ground to the left of the straightaway track as if it went left but was dragged to the right to follow the front of the car.

If operators do not enforce not standing in front of the proverbial white line they are still supposed to read the switch and verify that the signal indications are proper for movement.

Sometimes I observe the car not stopping until the double red signal is past the door pillar. But the sensors should be placed so the car can stop sooner and the switch will still operate and the signal will change when still visible through the windshield proper.
Last edited by Disney Guy on Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by typesix » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:29 am

At that time of day on a weekend, the lines are transitioning from singles to deuces, that derailed car was likely among the last singles for the morning. The first game was scheduled to start at 1pm.

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by dbperry » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:49 pm

Deputy General Manager Gonneville, at today's FMCB:
"Preliminarily, we have done an assessment into this incident and at this point we have ruled out both the vehicle and the infrastructure as a cause of this incident and at this point in time it does appear to be operator related. The track and the switch in this particular area as part of our ongoing capital program that we have to address infrastructure on the green line was replaced about 2 years ago." Continue to look into incident, cooperate with Transit Police and regulatory agencies, etc. etc.
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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by BandA » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:02 pm

Never seen an incident where they point the finger this quickly, so this must be an open-and-shut case. Also I think we are lucky that injuries weren't worse.

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by typesix » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:23 pm

Operator is at fault by rolling throughthe switch while it was in the process of throwing over to Riverside:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/ ... story.html

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Re: Green Line derail Kenmore-Fenway 6/8/2019

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:52 pm

Would a signal have detected the switch?
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